Vietnam Army green class A uniform

[MBS]

I know what you’re saying; not another basic Army green class a uniform.

 

This Vietnam uniform is a recent addition to my collection and I was excited when I found it as it has the original insignia attached. What really makes it special is the “beer can” DI’s.

This uniform is identified, through attribution, to a soldier who served in the 11^th Bn, 124^th Trans. Co. in Vietnam.

 

Enjoy,

Brent

[Sabrejet]

An all round excellent example of the type...the "beer-cans" are the cherry on the cake!

[patches]

The Beer Can DIs are fabulous, my compliments. However a curiosity presents itself with the overall uniform, if I may point out that the 11th Transportation Battalion was under the 1st Logistical Command not MACV,from what I can tell it always was it's entire time in Nam, but we see the MACV patch, the 11th Transporation Battalion was indeed awarded Meritorious Unit Commendations (Two of them), thats the Red ribbon, but it was not awarded the the Presidental Unit Citation, the Blue ribbon that's there. That Fourragère, it looks like the Fourragère for the French Médaille militaire, a cord only worn by units in the 1st Infantry Division(The Big Red One).

 

All of this coupled with the fact that the Class A uniform was not worn in Vietnam and in nearly every case was reissued to enlistedmen at least upon return to the States at places like the Oakland Army Terminal, here it was worn without any DIs or patches for the unit the man just processed out of, a Combat patch and ranks was sewn to it, but the organizational side was left bare.

[MBS]

Thanks for the comments and the compliments, all comments are appreciated.

 

I must admit that this is a unit I know little about and the research is still a work in progress. Fortunately the Vet is still with us so I may be able to contact him to clarify the layout of the uniform. I do know that the Vets brother was also in the service at the same time so maybe something became mixed up at one point.

 

Brent

[patches]

Out of curiosity, is this the color of the Fourragere thats on the coat? with Red lines on Yellow?

 

 

[MBS]

Yes, the fourragere on the uniform is yellow with red marks. It's for the Vietnamese cross of gallantry.

[MFT3]

Stateside the 1st Log patch would not be worn on either shoulder. MACV or USARVN would be worn.

[atb]

Stateside the 1st Log patch would not be worn on either shoulder. MACV or USARVN would be worn.

Please explain. I have seen several soldiers who served in the 1st LOG CMD in Vietnam who wore their SSI on the right shoulder when they returned to the US. It was and is a perfectly legitimate SSI to represent service in that unit and its successors as a Former Wartime Service Shoulder Sleeve Insignia (FWTS-SSI).

[MFT3]

The 1st Logistical Command was a major element of the USARV. You were authorized to wear on your right shoulder the patch of the headquarters of the major command to which your unit was assigned. In this case, USARV.

[Blitzbuggy12]

Nice uniform! I recently came across a AG44 to a 29th Artillery/4th ID Sp4 jacket I have some qestions on. I'm begining to like these VN items. Great find sir!

[patches]

The 1st Logistical Command was a major element of the USARV. You were authorized to wear on your right shoulder the patch of the headquarters of the major command to which your unit was assigned. In this case, USARV.

 

Respectfully Beg to differ mike, the 1st Logistical Command was a seperate organization, true it was controlled by USAV but here it only contained the 1st Log Comm, USAV also controlled the at least three Combat Support units, the 1st Aviation Brigade, 18th Military Police Brigade and the 525th Military Intelligence Group, the first two units we do know wore there patches as combat patches Army wide. The 1st Logistical Commands relation to USAV is like the WWII relation that the ETO Advance Base was to SHAEF. After a certain point 1st Logistical Command took over all support commands previously under the direct control of USAV.

[MFT3]

Please show me a photograph of a Stateside Class A uniform with one of these patches worn as a combat patch rather than a USAV.

[patches]

Yes, the fourragere on the uniform is yellow with red marks. It's for the Vietnamese cross of gallantry.

 

 

Thank's, but with this ID again this is somthing that would not be worn by a member of the 11th Transportation Battalion as far as I know, this is a bit sketchy, in 1974 the RVN awarded all units within MACV the Vietnam Cross of Gallantry unit citation it was affirmed by GO DA 8 in 1974, but this would be only the ribbon in it's brass frame, in order to wear the Fourragere a unit had to be awarded two or more of the Vietnam Cross of Gallantry, a example of this will be the 5th Battalion 60th Infantry, 9th Infantry Division, this Combat Infantry Battalion was awarded 3 VCOG, not sure if the 11th Trans Batt was awarded even one while they where in Nam.

[atb]

The 1st Logistical Command was a major element of the USARV. You were authorized to wear on your right shoulder the patch of the headquarters of the major command to which your unit was assigned. In this case, USARV.

The 1st LOG CMD was a major command in Vietnam and was worn on its own by those soldier's assigned on the right shoulder as a FWTS-SSI. I think you are a bit confused on the wear of the "right shoulder" insignia or are misinterpreting the regulations.

[atb]

Please show me a photograph of a Stateside Class A uniform with one of these patches worn as a combat patch rather than a USAV.

 

By your reasoning other soldiers in major units that had their own SSI but were components of and reported to the US Army, Vietnam (USARV) would not wear their own SSI. This includes 44th Medical Brigade, 1st Logistical Command, US Army Engineer Command, Vietnam, Capital Military Assistance Command, elements of the US Army Material Command. While most components of USARV wore the USARV SSI, those with their own approved SSI were authorized to wear them in-country and as SSI-FWTS after leaving Vietnam.

[MBS]

Thank's, but with this ID again this is somthing that would not be worn by a member of the 11th Transportation Battalion as far as I know, this is a bit sketchy, in 1974 the RVN awarded all units within MACV the Vietnam Cross of Gallantry unit citation it was affirmed by GO DA 8 in 1974, but this would be only the ribbon in it's brass frame, in order to wear the Fourragere a unit had to be awarded two or more of the Vietnam Cross of Gallantry, a example of this will be the 5th Battalion 60th Infantry, 9th Infantry Division, this Combat Infantry Battalion was awarded 3 VCOG, not sure if the 11th Trans Batt was awarded even one while they where in Nam.

 

 

Patches, while doing some research I came across a company that was under the 124^th Transportation command. It’s the 64^th transportation company and they were awarded the PUC and Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry. However, their linage dates back to WWII, so the PUC may be awarded for WWII. If that was the case would the company members be able to wear the PUC on a Vietnam era uniform? The page I found the information on does not list a source so I’ll have to do some further checking to find out when the PUC was awarded.

[MFT3]

I am still waiting for the photograph of a stateside worn class A uniform with any of the patches that have been mention worn on the right shoulder.

[patches]

Patches, while doing some research I came across a company that was under the 124^th Transportation command. It’s the 64^th transportation company and they were awarded the PUC and Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry. However, their linage dates back to WWII, so the PUC may be awarded for WWII. If that was the case would the company members be able to wear the PUC on a Vietnam era uniform? The page I found the information on does not list a source so I’ll have to do some further checking to find out when the PUC was awarded.

 

 

Right you are on this unit receving the PUC in WWII (it was for New Guinea), yes it would still be worn, worn in perpetuity, as long as a unit is active it's members will wear the PUC. Also this company the 64th did get a Vietnam Cross of Gallantry, but in order to wear the Fourragere for this award the unit must have receieved no less than Two Awards of the VCOG, It has to be understood that these VCOG Fourrageres are not a unit award that can or were worn by the desendant units, a great deal of Infantry to include the Battalions of the 1st Cavalry Division and Air Cavalry where most certainly awarded the VCOG as unit awards, most of them multiple times, but it was only worn during the period of the Vietnam War and into the 70s by the units from what I can tell, the Fourrrages never.

 

There were some units that in the early 80s wore the VCOG as a unit award, and that Civic Action unit citation, but in those days you be more art to see them being worn by NCOs and officers who where actully in the war and wore these as personal citations, now this would only apply to NCOs and Officers who were not attached to a Color Bearing unit really, I remember Drill Sergeants at Fort Benning could be seen wearing these Citations, plus PUC, and VUCs, why? because they were intitled to as former members of the unit at the time it was cited, plus The Infantry School and Center had no unit awards that would confict with the wearing them.

 

On the VCOG Fourragere. See this Photo, it shows some Troops of the 3rd Battalion 60th Infantry, 9th Infantry Division direct from South Vietnam, being honored in Seattle in July 1969, they wear the VCOG Fourragere, the Battalion was deactivated shortly after in August, it was reactivated again at Lewis in late 1972, after this occured the unit did not wear the VCOG Fourragere, they most likely did even wear the framed VCOG ribbon.

 

[patches]

These patches atb mentioned no doubt were worn as combat patches, but to actualy find a photo will be very hard, indeed trying to find any one unit as worn as a combat patch is tough, sure one can find loads of the very common one units, but like most things they can be a pain or can be rare in the case of these units if your wanting to fine it at the moment or your looking specificaly for thhis one patch, if it helps I have a Sgt E-5 metal ranks poplin 3rd pattern cut Army/Navy store/PX shirt, all subdued insignia to include the shoulder patches, it has Barracks done? stenciled U.S. Army and Name tapes with a Parachute Basic cloth badge a flat edge 8th Army AND a flat edge 18th MP Brigade combat patch both U.S.made fully embroidered subdued.

 

Quite a few units that combat patches are worn for are harder to find because of that units smaller size, and also most importantly will depend on how many decided to stay in the Army any significant amount of time in the late 60s through the 70s.

 

Take the troops who fought in the 1st Brigade 5th Infantry Division, in the 70s and 80s you would be very hard pressed to find a Vet of this unit currently serving on Active duty or even in the Reserves or National Guard, I perchance spoted one at the Fort Wainwright post finance office, It was the Payday and I had to go there with most of the guys in my Company as we just retured from the field and the PX was not cashing checks anymore that late in the day, so we were told to go there and we, well the ones who wanted they money, flew over there, in line was a NCO with the Black subdued Diamond of the 5th Division as a combat patch, it was the first and only time I seen that, I of course seen dozens upon dozens upon dozens of Vietnam vets with MACV, SF, 101st, 9th Div, 1st Div, 25th Div, 1st Cav Div, etc, but never this one.

 

I have also only seen in a photo the XXIV Corps patch on a Class A uniform as a combat patch, another obscure unit, it's in the 1982 ARMY GREEN BOOK I have, a Black Artillery officer in Class As pouring over a Map with other officers, he no doubt was in the XXIV Corps Artillery during the war.

[atb]

I am still waiting for the photograph of a stateside worn class A uniform with any of the patches that have been mention worn on the right shoulder.

 

You might be waiting quite awhile. But, an image is not needed if you know the regulations and were around in the Army during the time period all of those units were in RVN. A soldier had the option to wear his SSI as an SSI-FWTS. If he wore 1st Log Cmd in-country he was allowed to wear it as a "combat patch" when he left. He did not have to wear the SSI of the next highest command in his unit's chain-of-command.

 

By your flawed reasoning or non-understanding of the Army Regulation, all soldiers who left Vietnam who were not in the highest Army command in-country would have to switch SSI-FWTS to the unit above theirs. The combat divisions and brigades reported to a higher command, too. So, by your rules no 1st Cav Div, no 1st Inf Div, no 4th Inf Div, no 5th Inf Div, no 9th Inf Div, no AMERICAL Div, no 25th Inf Div, no 82nd Abn Div, no 101st Abn Div, no 173rd An Bde, no 199th Inf Bde SSI could be worn on the right shoulder.

 

It is the same today. A soldier of 1st Bde, 1st Inf Div in Afghanistan wears the 1st Inf Div as his SSI-FWTS even though his brigade is serving under a different division headquarters in-country.

[MFT3]

Notice I asked for an image of a class A uniform worn in the U.S. which is what we were talking about at the beginning of the topic. You are right, I think I will be waiting awhile because I don't think you will find one.

Speaking of Army regulations, you will find them to be different today than during the Vietnam war. I was in the Army at this time and the class A uniform bears little resemblance the the modern class A.

As a side note, my father was a career officer who served with a Transportation battalion in the 1st Logistical Command in Vietnam. Oddly when he returned from that tour, he wore the United States Army, Vietnam patch on the right shoulder of his class A uniform.

[patches]

Mike I'll be looking around, this patch can also have been worn on fatiques as a combat patch as well, one group I will start looking at are Doctors, Nurces, and Medical Admin and Medical Techs, it was these people that fell under 1st Logistical Command in the early period of the war, 1st Log Comm gave up control of these Medical units once the 44th Medical Brigade Arrived in country from Ft Sam Houston.

[atb]

Notice I asked for an image of a class A uniform worn in the U.S. which is what we were talking about at the beginning of the topic. You are right, I think I will be waiting awhile because I don't think you will find one.

Speaking of Army regulations, you will find them to be different today than during the Vietnam war. I was in the Army at this time and the class A uniform bears little resemblance the the modern class A.

As a side note, my father was a career officer who served with a Transportation battalion in the 1st Logistical Command in Vietnam. Oddly when he returned from that tour, he wore the United States Army, Vietnam patch on the right shoulder of his class A uniform.

You are right, right now I cannot find one. I am well aware of the regulations for SSI-FWTS both during the Vietnam Era and today-- they have not changed that much. I served on active duty from 1970 to 1991 and have been associated with the Army as a civilian employee since 1992 in a position where I consult both the uniform and the awards and decoratiosn regulations as a part of my job. Simply put, you are flat out wrong. Is it possible your Dad may have been assigned to more than one outfit during his tour and thus able to wear either the USARV or 1st Log Cmd as a "combat patch?" It happened quite often. I will find the period regulation and post it on here within the next few days.

 

I do not need an image to know what I know.

[capa]

An interesting read here gentlemen, I am learning a lot. For a Marine, all this SSI talk is complicated stuff however!

[atb]

An interesting read here gentlemen, I am learning a lot. For a Marine, all this SSI talk is complicated stuff however!

 

 

Just the way the Army keeps everyone dazed and confused.