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Petty Officer 3rd Class (good conduct)


ShooterMcGavin
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ShooterMcGavin

I've looked in the past to find a PO3 patch in the gold "good conduct" style (not the standard red chevron) but cannot find one anywhere. I was told once that they do not make them in gold, but I stumbled upon this photo from 1983 when researching the Opticalman rating (obsolete, disestablished) and it clearly shows a man wearing one, standing in the back row third from left. Does anyone out there own one or have you seen many in your patch hunting?

 

2ijiudf.jpg

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Over 16 yrs in and he's only an E4?!? Can you have been busted in rank and still have a gold rate? I wonder how he remained in?

Very interesting photo.

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Judging from the fruit salad he is wearing, he may possibly be a prior service man who has enlisted from another service into the Navy. All sorts of reasons for an E-4 to possibly have gold hashmarks and crow,

I know from my experience in the Naval Reserve back in the early 70's, that there are all sorts of circumstances that can lead to wearing insignia that seems a bit out of place or even wrong to some people. This guy probably fits into one of those situations.

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Judging from the fruit salad he is wearing, he may possibly be a prior service man who has enlisted from another service into the Navy. All sorts of reasons for an E-4 to possibly have gold hashmarks and crow,

I know from my experience in the Naval Reserve back in the early 70's, that there are all sorts of circumstances that can lead to wearing insignia that seems a bit out of place or even wrong to some people. This guy probably fits into one of those situations.

Good theory. In fact, could that be a CIB above the ribbons? Looks kinda blue.

If that uniform ever went up on Ebay, most of us "put together conspiracy nuts" would go into cardiac arrest.

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In the 80s, it was not unheard of to see a 3rd class with a gold chevron. The issue was with ratings that had very little upward mobility as there are very few spots. Opticalman was a rate that was very much one that was without a lot of billets navy-wide. There wasn't a call for a division of these guys on each ship (like boatswains mates). You might find one aboard a carrier, but that's about it.

 

We had two sailors on one of my ships who had twelve or more years of good conduct service - were hard-chargers, but they could not advance regardless of how well they did on their advancement exams.

 

I'd imagine that gold 3/c is an extreme rarity these days.

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ShooterMcGavin
Opticalman was a rate that was very much one that was without a lot of billets navy-wide. There wasn't a call for a division of these guys on each ship (like boatswains mates). You might find one aboard a carrier, but that's about it.

 

Must have made life very simple for them then (BYOB), if there were few around... or very busy, I would assume.

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Must have made life very simple for them then (BYOB), if there were few around... or very busy, I would assume.

 

Shooter...having been to sea for much of my 10 years in the Navy, I can say that apart from supply (SKs) folks, very few people have little to do. A one-man show like this guy would have been attached to a larger division who would have tagged a junior petty officer like this with some of the make-work duties (such as field day) when he had nothing technical (within his field of expertise) to do.

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ShooterMcGavin

True, I often forget that unlike merchant ships it's more difficult to hide or BYOB on a Navy ship, considering the the scope of your operations. I was on one vessel carrying a chief electrician and a reefer engineer once.. if all systems were operational, you'd find them kicked back in their cabins enjoying coffee when not on routine rounds, or hanging around the control room talking sports/politics/cars etc.. with the licensed engineer of the watch. Going to pretty much go on a limb here and assume that if you did that in the Navy you'd have an irate chief or officer crawling up one side of you and down the other.

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On my first tour in the Navy (76 -80) I recall a few E4's retiring. The rates were locked up, Little to no advancement.

 

So seeing gold on a E4 from the early 80s does not seem odd to me.

 

Jon B.

Newaygo Mi

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I agree, late '70s, early '80s, e-4 with 20 in and retireing was very common, ezpecially for reserves. When I retired in '99 High Year Tenure for E-4 was 10 years, meaning that if you were still e-4 when you hit ten years, you were seperated. Wasn't always like that. My second ship we had a BMSN (E-3 Boatswain's Mate) with 12 years in. They were all good service, but he was not allowed to wear gold hashmarks as there were no gold SN stripes. He knew his job well, and had stayed on the ship for the entire 12 years. He had no interest in advanceing, although he was routinely put in charge and detailed to train more senior new guys. He was happy, did his job well and the Navy got him for minimum wage as it were.

 

Steve

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This is an interesting picture. I believe the PO3 is an OSVET (other service veteran). I also believe that upward mobility in this rate was not the reason for this guy being a PO3. There is a PO2 in the front row with less than 4 years service, evidentally he had no upward mobility problems. :rolleyes: I also believe you are correct in your assumption that they did not make them (PO3) in gold. I think you had to make your own PO3 crow. See below.

 

post-10825-0-27272900-1351260107_thumb.jpg

 

 

I've looked in the past to find a PO3 patch in the gold "good conduct" style (not the standard red chevron) but cannot find one anywhere. I was told once that they do not make them in gold, but I stumbled upon this photo from 1983 when researching the Opticalman rating (obsolete, disestablished) and it clearly shows a man wearing one, standing in the back row third from left. Does anyone out there own one or have you seen many in your patch hunting?

 

2ijiudf.jpg

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My dad was in the USCGR with a fellow who had previously served in Army, Marine Corps, and Navy. After he did his one hitch in each service and was awarded the GCM for that service, he switched to another service. After he left the USCG, he went to the Air Force and got his fifth and last GCM. The negative aspect to this is that advancement is impeded. The fellow my dad knew was happy to retire as an E-7, which he earned just before his retirement, which means he was an E-6 with almost 20 years service when that happened.

 

It's too bad we can't zoom in on that picture more clearly. I agree that top badge looks very blue, but doesn't the Navy have a regulation that the CIB be "converted" to a Combat Action Ribbon when a prior service vet transitions into a naval service? I wonder when that became a regulation? Or perhaps that is an Expert Infantryman Bar rather than a CIB? I also note there is a gold badge being worn below his ribbons, and as I recall, isn't there only a couple gold badges that enlisted can wear (like the Navy/MC parachute badge for one)?? The explanation of that serviceman's history would certainly be interesting!

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Guys - you cannot wear gold for other service. The navy uniform regulations stipulate the following:

 

 

4232. GOLD RATING BADGE AND SERVICE STRIPES. Personnel whose most recent 12 cumulative years of Naval active or active reserve service meets requirements for Good Conduct Service (that which meets minimum requirements for performance, conduct and evaluations marks for the Good Conduct Award) shall wear gold rating badges and gold service stripes on Dress Blue uniforms, Dinner Dress Blue uniforms and Dinner Dress Blue/White Jacket uniforms. The 12 years may be active or drilling reserve time in the Navy, Navy Reserve, Marine Corps, or Marine Corps Reserve. Times excluded are: delayed entry programs, inactive reserves and broken service. Under broken service conditions - resume the cumulative time count upon active duty reenlistment or upon enlisting in the drilling reserves.

 

4233. CONTINUED WEARING OF GOLD. Once qualified to wear the gold rating badge and gold service stripes, the qualification continues through the duration of an enlisted person's service, providing they continue to meet minimum conduct, performance, and evaluation mark requirements for a Good Conduct Medal or Naval Reserve Meritorious Service Award. On the date the individual fails to meet the minimum standards, the gold rating badge and gold service stripes must be removed from the uniform. Additionally, if an individual is convicted by court-martial or Non-Judicial Punishment (NJP), the gold badge and gold service stripes must be removed from the uniform on the date the conviction becomes final within the meaning of Article 76, Uniform Code of Military Justice. The privilege to again wear the gold service stripes/rating badge may only be earned by fulfilling the requirements listed in <4232>.

 

I served with a guy who was a Viet Nam-era Army veteran who had two Army GCs and had been honorably discharged as an E-6. He joined the navy as an E-5 and got his 2nd NGCM when I served with him (he was an E-6). He did not meet the requirements for gold.

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According to the quoted regulations, you could have 12 years in the USMC and go into the USN and wear gold. :huh:

 

Chris

 

 

Yes...I should've been more specific...Army, Air Force and Coast Guard service does not count. USMC is a component of the DoN, so, service in the Marines is applicable.

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Lets say for a moment that a man , for a dozen reasons leaves the service and then later realizes that he wants back in. Had he, earned the gold a recruiter would still offer him reenlistment at lower rank. Depending on how this man wanted back in he might take what was offered him, If he had earned gold and wanted backin bad enough he could come back in at any rate but still rate gold.?

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Salvage Sailor

I completely agree, OSVET (OtherServicesVETeran)

 

Two men in my A School class were OSVETS. One with Army service in Vietnam as an E-5 who graduated as a PO3 (OS3) E-4. At our graduation inspection the School Commander stops in front of our second OSVET, an OSSN (E-3). He looks at the four rows of ribbons, including multiple Vietnam tours. good conducts, & his aircrew wings. He got nose to nose and asked "Are those all yours?" in an pointed inquiry. The OSVET replies, "Yes Sir". They stood eye to eye for a long second, then the Commander strode into the administration office. When the OSVET picked up his travel orders, they were those of an OS1 (E-6).

 

 

 

This is an interesting picture. I believe the PO3 is an OSVET (other service veteran). I also believe that upward mobility in this rate was not the reason for this guy being a PO3. There is a PO2 in the front row with less than 4 years service, evidentally he had no upward mobility problems. :rolleyes: I also believe you are correct in your assumption that they did not make them (PO3) in gold. I think you had to make your own PO3 crow. See below.

 

USNSLEEVE.jpg

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An interesting quandry then. If OSVET can't count their prior service, and any kind of NJP or UCMJ violation which could result in reduction in rank would disqualify, how do we explain that guys have worn them, and we even have a pic of one being worn?

 

12 years and still an E-4? (I just find that hard to swallow. - Again, different branch of service, but I knew a guy once who didn't want the responsibility of senior enlisted rank, and once he got to E-5 he just quit taking the service-wide exam. Eventually that caches up with a guy though, with the "up-or-out" regs, right?)

 

Could changing rates to a career that is competitive/limited in slots cause this? (A guy voluntarily taking a reduction in rank to change to a different community?)

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