17 replies to this topic

[1srelluc]

I found this Winchester (serial # 1306829) M1 Carbine this morning at a yard Sale. I gave $75.00 for it.

Winchester marked parts are: Receiver, trigger group/safety, bolt, barrel.

Recoil plate...D.I. Marked
Slide...SG "
Stock...IO "
Hand Guard...SHB marked
Mag...Circle SL marked
Rears sight...H in a shield marked.

Parts not listed have no markings I can see.

The carbine is very worn finish wise and absolutely filthy when I got it. Bore is still OK.

Is this carbine WW-2 correct?

[TLeo]

For $75 you got a steal. Typical mix of USGI parts from WW2 with a rare high wood stock on it. Congratulations!

[lambo35]

Great find!
Not correct for WW2 issue. With that Type 1 barrel band and the high wood under the slide [rt.side], it probably was upgraded in a depot or in the field, rather than at a major arsenal. Are there any stamped letters in the wood of the buttstock such as; .U., SA, RIA, AA, MR, BA, etc? Also look on the wood just in front of the barrel band, is there any impression in the top of the wood, indicating a different band on at an earlier time?

Edited by lambo35, 13 October 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[saddler]

$75 !!

WOW

[hirsca]

When did they start installing the adjustable rear sight? Most WW2 carbines that I have seen have the simple two position flip rear sight. Thanks, Al in Dallas.

[1srelluc]

Great find!
Not correct for WW2 issue. With that Type 1 barrel band and the high wood under the slide [rt.side], it probably was upgraded in a depot or in the field, rather than at a major arsenal. Are there any stamped letters in the wood of the buttstock such as; .U., SA, RIA, AA, MR, BA, etc? Also look on the wood just in front of the barrel band, is there any impression in the top of the wood, indicating a different band on at an earlier time?

The only things on the stock are the crossed cannons and the circle P on the bottom of the P-Grip and of course the IO mark on the stock.

The finish in the area of the front band looks fine. There is no impression on the wood or shadow on the metal where another band ever was.

I'm sure it went through some type of refurb.

[TLeo]

The adjustable rear sights were in use late war on carbines. The H is for Hemphill on that sight and according to War Baby by Larry Ruth, it is the most commonly used milled adjustable sight on Winchesters.. Someone may have replaced the late barrel band (with bayonet lug) with the early type 1 that is on it, but it is possible the barrell band is original to this winchester, also. The high wood stock is hard to find as they were usually cut down to the low wood type during repairs/rebuilds both during and after the war. The bolt, handguard, stock, rear sight, op slide and recoil plate are all WW2 GI parts. it is typical for parts from different manufacturers to end up in carbines during the war and not just afterward during refurbishment/rebuilds.

[AustinO]

Looks correct for late 44, 45 (and no later.) Manufacturers parts would have been swapped in field depots during that period but if it had stayed on the books much longer we would be seeing upgraded parts (band, stock, safety, bolt.) The stock alone (or barrel band for that matter) is worth more than you paid so I seriously doubt anyone went through the trouble to fiddle with it.
To tag onto what TLeo stated, typical to see different manufacturers as a lot of parts were sub-contracted out by the government and sent to the assemblers (like Winchester) as needed.

Any provenance as to its history?

Edited by AustinO, 13 October 2012 - 05:54 PM.

[1srelluc]

The adjustable rear sights were in use late war on carbines. The H is for Hemphill on that sight and according to War Baby by Larry Ruth, it is the most commonly used milled adjustable sight on Winchesters.......

Were the flip-type sights staked to the receiver's sight base?

The reason I ask is after carefully looking where the Hemphill sight is staked it appears that no other sight was ever staked there.

AustinO......No provenance that was related to me other than the guy said he had it since the 60s. LOL...To be honest I was not going to hang around long to talk it up.

Edited by 1srelluc, 13 October 2012 - 05:58 PM.

[TLeo]

From what I have read, yes the flip sights were usually staked to keep them from moving but that was not always done. It's possible, as AustinO said, that you have an un-messed with Winchester in it's last "as used" configuration. The stock certainly has not been rebuilt or the wood would have been cut down and it would have arsenal rebuild stamps. If the original Winchester stock had been damaged and needed to be replaced by a unit armorer he would have just grabbed what was available without concern for the maker. Same for all the other parts. Does the carbine have a push safety or rotary type? It's hard to see from the pictures.

[doyler]

Very nice find.


From What I understand the sling well should have a W in it for a correct Winchester stock.The W marked socks were used on Winchesters from 43-45.

I would say it was a re-furb and upgraded.The stake marks are seen on the recievers when the flip site was upgraded.This said I had a very late war 45 dated carbine by Inland with the adjustable site(but it was all Inland with appropiate parts)

Depending on the serial number you will be able to determine which parts were corect for that production run.

IO is an Inand stock

[1srelluc]

From what I have read, yes the flip sights were usually staked to keep them from moving but that was not always done. It's possible, as AustinO said, that you have an un-messed with Winchester in it's last "as used" configuration. The stock certainly has not been rebuilt or the wood would have been cut down and it would have arsenal rebuild stamps. If the original Winchester stock had been damaged and needed to be replaced by a unit armorer he would have just grabbed what was available without concern for the maker. Same for all the other parts. Does the carbine have a push safety or rotary type? It's hard to see from the pictures.

Push button safety. SW marked.

doyler....Just a IO in the sling well.

[thorin6]

Receiver is late 1943, before the adjustable sight would have been installed by the factory. The swap out of the stock and replacement of the sight could have been done either during the war or at war's end in Europe when many of the M1 Carbines went through depot repair and refurbishment before being shipped back to the States; the later Type III barrel bands and flip safeties just may have not been available then. The stock from an Inland and the handguard from a Standard Products would indicate that the original stock was likely damaged (although they could have been swapped in the field if a bunch of carbines were being worked on and they were reassembled with what ever was grabbed at the time).
In the book "The M1 Carbine" by Maemlein on page 28 there's a picture of a GI with a highwood, I-cut oil slot stock with an adjustable sight and a Type 1 barrel band attributed to Germany in 1945. I suspect that what ever the cause, the carbine you have is in the configuration it had at the end of WWII.
And at $75 you should go out and buy lottery tickets while your luck still holds.

[shtur]

If you have a M2 ball round, place it into the muzzle for a field expedient check of barrel wear. If the the round goes all the way to the brass, the barrel is worn (ie., shot out), if there is about 1/8 inch between the end of the muzzle and the brass of the round, the barrel has quite a bit of life left. Any longer is a plus.

[Kilroy97]

WOW!!!!...that is a AMAZING find for $75!

[1srelluc]

If you have a M2 ball round, place it into the muzzle for a field expedient check of barrel wear. If the the round goes all the way to the brass, the barrel is worn (ie., shot out), if there is about 1/8 inch between the end of the muzzle and the brass of the round, the barrel has quite a bit of life left. Any longer is a plus.

Yes, I did that once I got the bore clean and I'm good to go in that regard.

I hope to take it to my range in the morning and wring it out. I got a Mossberg 42 M-B trainer that I picked-up last week to sight in too.

[1srelluc]

I took it down to my range this morning and gave it a go. I only fired 5 rounds at 50 yards (I had laser sighted it in last night) and it did OK. No issues.

1.5" and if you discount the lowest one a solid 1". It shot pretty much point of aim as I sat the orange marker on top the FS post. I did not adjust anything but it looks as if it could go left and up a couple clicks.

It came up a blowing rain so I'll get it back down there again sometime this week and fine tune it. Looks like it will be a decent shooter if I do my part.

[saddler]

bastages!!

Nice shooter - pity I had to lose mine to legislation....