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From the Box of Tears - Fantasy Airship Wing with six pointed star G maker mark


mshaw
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This is a neat piece......I have seen one other, which came out of nowhere about a month ago. It's not a military badge at all, but rather I believe it's the first issue wing for Goodyear Blimp Pilots

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This is a neat piece......I have seen one other, which came out of nowhere about a month ago. It's not a military badge at all, but rather I believe it's the first issue wing for Goodyear Blimp Pilots

Nope, it's a fantasy badge made to fool collectors into believing it was a Goodyear Blimp Pilot badge... and they started showing up a little over 15 years ago.

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Well I'll be damned, lol. Looked like a good one to me....The authentic badge did exist though. Is it the hallmarking that gives it away as a repro?

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1177109[/url]']

If the blimp were older, it would have looked even more convincing! Now we all have to have one in our collections. :lol:

 

You can have mine for the right price, JS!

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I have always felt that Cliff's take on these wings is correct, that it is a fantasy piece. I recall them showing up much earlier than 15 years ago (I recall seeing 4 or 5 for sale at one of the back east Militaria shows, including a sample or two from a questionable dealer--Snyder's Treasures :thumbdown: ) At the time, many of these were being offered as USN airship wings.

 

However, I recently saw a photograph going around of a Capt J. A. Bottner of the Goodyear-Zeppelin Company that looks to be wearing a wing similar to this one. You can do an internet search with at least one eBay auction offering the photo as proof of the wing being what it is supposed to be--a Goodyear blimp pilot wing.

 

For my money, I would stay away from these, as they look pretty shoddy. Maybe the truth is halfway between fantasy piece and rare early civilian aviation insignia?

 

BTW, here is the photo.

 

Patrick

post-1519-1348530237.jpg

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Great information Patrick.

 

The wing is very heavy and the die strike is very detailed. It is definitely not a cast wing. Knowing what I now know about wings, the pin doesn't seem heavy enough for a wing of this weight.

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I recently saw a photograph going around of a Capt J. A. Bottner of the Goodyear-Zeppelin Company that looks to be wearing a wing similar to this one. You can do an internet search with at least one eBay auction offering the photo as proof of the wing being what it is supposed to be--a Goodyear blimp pilot wing.

 

For my money, I would stay away from these, as they look pretty shoddy. Maybe the truth is halfway between fantasy piece and rare early civilian aviation insignia?

:think:

Patrick's photo of Captain John A. Boettner adds an interesting twist to these wings. Yes, examples of the wings started showing up at militaria shows 15 (or more) years ago as pre-WW2 USAAC Balloon Pilot wings, and as Patrick pointed out, they are still being offered as USAAC Balloon Pilot wings by Snyder's Treasurers ($350). Recreations are also being offered by the W--------- Gallery who calls them Goodyear-Zeppelin Pilot wings ($100). Because of the hallmarks found on the back of the wings both Snyder & W--------- claim the originals were made by the A. T. Gunner & Co. of Attleboro, MA but nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

So what is it that I find so interesting by the wings being worn by Captain Boettner in the photo?

 

In the 1920s the Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. formed a partnership with Luftschiffbau-Zeppelin of German whereby the Germans would contribute their advanced patents and engineering know-how in building airships in return for a one-third interest in a new Goodyear subsidiary, the Goodyear-Zeppelin Corporation; therefore, in consideration of that joint partnership and the photograph that Patrick found it does seem conceivable that the Goodyear-Zeppelin Corporation Airship Pilot wings may have been made in German sometime in the late 1920s or early 1930s after all.

 

I think Patrick's evidence is very compelling that it may be true; however, until a clearer picture of some actual Goodyear Airship Pilot wings can are found, it remains open to question. In the mean time check out the two sets of wings posted below.

 

:unsure:

 

Note that the badge at the top of each set is very well made and on the back it sports the hallmark of Jakob Grimminger, a silverware & jewelry manufacturer that was located in Schwäbisch Gmünd, Germany. The hallmark is a Star of David with the letter G inside it. It also has a very large pin and locking device on the back; therefore, could this one actually be a legitimate Goodyear-Zeppelin Corporations Airship Pilot badge from the 1920/1930s?

 

The poorer quality badge at the bottom is the one seen at the beginning of this thread. Hummm, but it's stamped Sterling 925. Well, the sterling standard is 925 parts of silver to 75 parts copper, and sterling silver jewelry manufactured in the United States is usually stamped Sterling, but occasionally it can also be followed by the number 925. Sterling silver manufacturer in German can also be marked 925 but in most every case it would have a manufacturers hallmark beside it. So, was this copy made in the USA. . . or Germany? Since there is no manufacturers hallmark and it has an American pin AND drop-in lock on the back, it's probably safe to say it was made in the USA.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Cliff

post-4542-1348552556.jpg

post-4542-1348552579.jpg

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I've collected German militaria for almost 40 years...those wings don't look like German craftsmanship from that era. The pin in particular....I've also never seen that hallmark on a piece of German insignia.

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I've collected German militaria for almost 40 years...those wings don't look like German craftsmanship from that era. The pin in particular....I've also never seen that hallmark on a piece of German insignia.

 

First of all let me state I am not an expert on Blimp or Airship wings by any stretch of the imagination but I am a bit familiar with Attleboro, MA wing manufacturers. Having been born and lived/worked in Attleboro for the last 59 years. Attleboro's nickname is the "Jewelry City" and as I'm sure you all know is/was home to many of the well known WWII wing manufacturers. Ie: L.G. Balfour, Josten's, Amcraft, Robbins and VH Blackinton (actually Attleboro Falls, MA). Orber Mfg. was also the next city over in Pawtucket, R.I. The top wing shown actually bears the hallmark of A.T. Gunner Mfg NOT Jakob Grimmenger. Please see the link to the Silversmiths website at the end of this post to show that the star with a G is actually the hallmark of the A.T. Gunner firm which was in business from the 1920's to the 1970's. I had the pleasure of knowing the last owner of the company, Mr. Ralph Gunner. We were in the Rotary Club of Attleboro together until his passing. I can't pass judgement on the top wing as being an authentic Goodyear Blimp pilot wing but I can state with certainty that the hallmark is for the A.T. Gunner Mfg. Co. I hope this sheds a little light on the subject.

 

http://www.sterlingflatwarefashions.com/Si...ersmithsG8.html

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Forgot to add that I find it a bit of a coincidence that this discussion is about Attleboro, MA wing manufacturers and the current Forum banner is in remembrance of Operation Attleboro in 1966. The Operation was named for the city of Attleboro, MA.

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Scarecrow, in looking at the link you sent regarding the hallmark it appears that A.T. Gunner used a five point star with a G in the center. If you look closely at Cliff's wing you'll notice that it's a six point star. I don't believe it's an A.T. Gunner mark unless they somehow also used a six point star.

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You're right, I didn't notice the six points but I still agree with Kadet, it doesn't look German made. Hard to overlook the Gunner/Attleboro connection. Oh well, the mystery continues.........

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bschwartz said:
Scarecrow, in looking at the link you sent regarding the hallmark it appears that A.T. Gunner used a five point star with a G in the center. If you look closely at Cliff's wing you'll notice that it's a six point star. I don't believe it's an A.T. Gunner mark unless they somehow also used a six point star.
Scarecrow said:
You're right, I didn't notice the six points but I still agree with Kadet, it doesn't look German made. Hard to overlook the Gunner/Attleboro connection. Oh well, the mystery continues.........

Yes, if you look closely there is a notable difference between the A.T. Gunner and Jakob Grimminger hallmarks which is hard to miss. . . and that was my point. Both Snyder's Treasures and W--------- Gallery made the same mistake. :crying:

post-4542-1348581738.jpg

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Note that the badge at the top of each set is very well made and on the back it sports the hallmark of Jakob Grimminger, a silverware & jewelry manufacturer that was located in Schwäbisch Gmünd, Germany. The hallmark is a Star of David with the letter G inside it. It also has a very large pin and locking device on the back; therefore, could this one actually be a legitimate Goodyear-Zeppelin Corporations Airship Pilot badge from the 1920/1930s?

The answer will probably be that the design for the badge seen in Patrick's picture of Captain Boettner is not the same as the badge which has the Jakob Grimminger hallmark on the back. In other words, to me the design of the shoulders on both wings appear to be different and the height of the top and bottom rear stabilizer fins on the badge worn by Captain Boettner appears to be shorter that the fins seen on the badge with the Jakob Grimminger hallmark.

 

Cliff

post-4542-1348586575.jpg

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To add a bit more to the mix. Here is a photo of the same pilot. Later in his career, maybe? He isn't wearing the same cap badge, but rather what appears to be an enameled badge.

 

It does seem that a variety of wing patters were worn by Goodyear or Goodyear-Zepplin. It is possible that some leeway existed, but from what I have been able to find, the 1930's vintage wing was a wing that incorporated the winged boot logo of Goodyear.

 

I can't seem to figure out if GZ was a subsidiary of Goodyear or what, so maybe they would have had their own wing.

 

From my brief research, it seems that the Goodyear-Zepplin corporation was formed in 1924, but was forced to dissociate with Germany by 1941. It doesn't look European made, to my eyes.

 

In any case, absent better photos, I think you kind of need to examine the wing and let it sell itself. From what I have seen in my study of mid 1920-1930's insignia, this really doesn't stand up well. The quality looks poor, hardware seems off, and the hallmark is questionable. The examples of these I have handled do not come off well in person. So, while the photo does offer compelling evidence that this may be a vintage wing pattern, I have very little confidence that the examples I am seeing are actually vintage.

 

Patrick

post-1519-1348618638.jpg

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  • 6 months later...

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