Dirk Posted February 10, 2008 Share #1 Posted February 10, 2008 After seeing that great thread on the officer's heavy cavalry saber I thought I would take a chance and ask about this one....picked up last year at the Baltimore gun show. Bought it dirt cheap knowing no scabbard and some other anomalies. Marked : N.P. Ames Cutler Springfield 1836 The blade is badly pitted and has been cleaned at some point.....barely visible is the faint blade floral etchings in a few spots, but only about 10% survives..... Total blade length from top of washer to tip 34". However no markings on the quillon, guard or ricasso. I think the grip has been rewrapped but the wire is the correct gage (from what I've been told).....The spanner nut seems tight and the blade is held tight...the leather throat washer has been replaced. So what do I have here...a poorly marked 1833 Dragoon saber? Or one that was rejected for Government use? A correct Ames blade matched to a British Light Cav (1821) pattern hilt? Any help would be greatly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share #2 Posted February 10, 2008 The Ames engraving...the wide open "3 "and "6" are visible at the base of the image....a much different marking style than date stampings seen on later Ames cav sabers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share #3 Posted February 10, 2008 The hilt and wrap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share #4 Posted February 10, 2008 The pommel cap with spanner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted February 10, 2008 The unmarked quillon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted February 10, 2008 Hopefully visible, a bit of the floral design shows through all the pitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted February 10, 2008 Just went back and looked at the very base of the blade right above the washer and yes I see a faint JM buried deep in the grime/dirt of the base...how I missed that after a year I don't know....Thillmann notes he is an inspector for 1836....still no others marks where one would expect to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted February 10, 2008 Share #8 Posted February 10, 2008 Hi Dirk, An interesting sword. It does show several anomalies but the blade seems correct from the photos. One has to be careful with these swords as they have been reproduced for years. The engraved maker marking is what I would expect to see on an Ames sword of this time period. The etch is too light to see except for the engraved highlights to the acid etch. Justin Murphy (JM) was an inspector who did inspect these swords but his initials should be on the guard quillon as opposed to just the blade. I think all your suppositions about the sword are possible. The sword certainly could have been easily dismounted and re-assembled with various bits and pieces. Another possibility is that it is not an item of issue 1833 Dragoon Sabre at all but a sabre of the dragoon type that was made by Ames to sell commercially. That is to say not a US Government contract sword. Ames made similar swords of this type for the "Texas Dragoons" (so marked on the blade etch/engraving) as well as others. It is possible that your sword is simply one sold to state militia or individuals. Can you read "United States Dragoons" on the blade? I hope this is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share #9 Posted February 10, 2008 Sarge: Thank you for weighing in on this. At your suggestion I went back and looked hard at the blade in natural light and yes I do see portions of the words "United States" above the floral etching...a very wide looped "Unit" and the start of the "S". Sadly, the rarer "Dragoons" wording is not present (but I understand for 1835 on thats ok). Funny, but the etching is not close to the center of the sword but back more toward the ricasso. Now I am thinking the blade is indeed an good Ames and for a government contract (with JM's inspection stamp)...the hilt however has me questioning....where is JM on the quillon? Maybe the answer is in comparing the hilt to a English model. It is just the sword is so tight that it does not seem to have been taken a part....nor am I sure you could just plug this blade into the hilt from an English sword with ease. Anyway this one has some questions that need answering....or until I can afford a cleaner version w/scabbard. Again thanks for your help. Dirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noworky Posted February 13, 2008 Share #10 Posted February 13, 2008 Dirk looks like a great sword to me and you and Sarge make for some interesting reading. Lets break out some more sabers!! I enjoy sitting reading rference material on what I collect but I enjoy this better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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