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EBAY auction: Pre WW1 era USMC Marine Officers Bell Crown Visor Hat AKA: Barracks Cover for the Blues


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#26 Bob Hudson

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 08:12 AM

Things do not look good:

On December 29, 2007, member DevilDan1900 made this post on the forum http://www.usmilitar...showtopic=13799

Just got this as a late Christmas gift from my Dad! Havn't had time to research it much yet but it's definately an Anson Mills piece, marked with their stamp and "Pat. Feb. 1, 81" on the reverse of the buckle. Might be an Officer's belt. It has loops for 45 rounds of what I initially thought was .44 cal pistol shells, but they are too large, so possibly .38s? Very dark blue/black on the belt itself with some interesting grommets for suspenders (?) and a brass hook for hanging accoutrements. The best part, though, is the story that goes with it. My Dad told me he got this over the summer at a yard sale mixed in with a large box of children's toys, for a DOLLAR! Anyone encountered a belt of this type before or know the model designation?

He posted this photo:

Posted Image

In an ebay auction ended JAN 29, 2007, ebay seller germannpinkk sold this item with the same photo:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=190193012482

devilphoto2.jpg

This sort of erases any doubts about who is selling the faked Bell and Crown cap.

#27 ADMIN

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 08:37 AM

The more I read this one, the worse it appears to me.

The seller germannpinkk / DevilDan1900 made the amendment to his auction saying "I am neither an expert in this field or a collector, this is simply an item I bought that I am offering for sale, nothing more, nothing less." So, seller claims to not be a collector and just stumbled upon the fake visor for sale. True honest mistakes do happen and unknowning people buy something "neat" at a yard sale that turns out bad. But, I don't think that is the case here. It is a fake visor being sold by a seller that claims not to be a collector of those items, yet his entire time on the forum and his posts here indicate he is a very serious collector...

#28 Bob Hudson

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 08:43 AM

The more I read this one, the worse it appears to me.

The seller germannpinkk / DevilDan1900 made the amendment to his auction saying "I am neither an expert in this field or a collector, this is simply an item I bought that I am offering for sale, nothing more, nothing less." So, seller claims to not be a collector and just stumbled upon the fake visor for sale. True honest mistakes do happen and unknowning people buy something "neat" at a yard sale that turns out bad. But, I don't think that is the case here. It is a fake visor being sold by a seller that claims not to be a collector of those items, yet his entire time on the forum and his posts here indicate he is a very serious collector...



DevilDan1900 actually wrote most of the posts in the Bell Crown thread in our reference section: http://www.usmilitar...?showtopic=3011

#29 Bob Hudson

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 08:59 AM

I have reported this listing to ebay and asked them to investigate and referred them to this thread for proof this is a fraud. I hate to do that because such reports can backfire on the person doing the reporting, but this is just not some naive ebay'er who found something in a garage sale: this appears to be an outright fraud that could cost some poor schmuck hundreds of dollars.

#30 bobgee

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 09:00 AM

Holy Moly, Batman.........errrrrr, I mean ADMIN.......Are we dealing with Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde right here in our own cave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DARN!!!!! S/F.....Robin.......errrrrr, I mean Bobgee

#31 squidres

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 09:00 AM

Hadn't looked there yet Bob, but that's not good.


I wish I knew how to do it, but you can report fakes to Ebay, and this is a rank fake. Not even close



#32 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:57 AM

Holy Moly, Batman.........errrrrr, I mean ADMIN.......Are we dealing with Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde right here in our own cave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DARN!!!!! S/F.....Robin.......errrrrr, I mean Bobgee


This is making me sick

#33 usmcaviator

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:45 AM

Good detective work Bob. Please do not miss the fact that his USMC canteen and patch in his other auctions are equally as deceptive, and equally as fake. The canteen is at $300 and climbing, it is not a military canteen. This is a desperate person who has not made a great attempt at covering his tracks, he has been indentified, we will see if he has the nerve to ever post here again.

The high bidder as of yesterday is a friend of mine, and I have yet to call him. The high bidder now, I do not know who it is. I have been sent this auction by about 5 collector/buyers not on the forum asking me if it is good. If the auction is not pulled down, you might be surprised at what it ends for!

Mike

#34 CNY Militaria

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:53 AM

The visor listing has been pulled now... I am thinking he read this.

#35 Dirk

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 12:27 PM

The seller has probably been aware of this thread since at least Thursday....

#36 USMCRECON

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:30 PM

This auction has been "ended early" when I checked it about 10 min ago.

Edited by USMCRECON, 02 February 2008 - 01:40 PM.


#37 USMCRECON

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:39 PM

Here are some of germannpinkk's past sales of items he (as DevilDan1900) posted here:

EBAY: United Spanish American War Veterans Officer's Medal
http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

USMF: Spanish American War Veterans Officer's Medal, (Colonel's), MINTY!!
http://www.usmilitar...showtopic=14170
------------------------------------------------------------

EBAY: Spanish American War Veterans USWV Medal MINT Numbered
http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

USMF: Spanish American War Veterans Medal, Numbered, MINTY!!!
http://www.usmilitar...showtopic=14173

------------------------------------------------------------

EBAY: 1890s Army Navy Union Medal Marines USMC on Orig Card!
http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=190193586640

USMF: Army - Navy Union Medal on Orig. Sales Card, Metal Arts Made, MINTY!!
http://www.usmilitar...showtopic=14172

--------------------------------------------------------------

EBAY: Orig Numbered U.S. Army Spanish American War Medal MINT
http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

USMF:Numbered Spanish American War Army Service Medal, Wrap Broach, MINTY!!
http://www.usmilitar...showtopic=14168

--------------------------------------------------------------


I almost bought that SAW medal from him when it was in the For Sale section a couple weeks ago http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/crying.gif

Guess I'm glad I paassed on it now.

#38 USMCRECON

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 01:53 PM

I have reported this listing to ebay and asked them to investigate and referred them to this thread for proof this is a fraud. I hate to do that because such reports can backfire on the person doing the reporting, but this is just not some naive ebay'er who found something in a garage sale: this appears to be an outright fraud that could cost some poor schmuck hundreds of dollars.


For what it's worth, I think you did the right thing. As was said earlier, anyone can make an unknowing mistake. However, knowingly and deliberately selling absolute fakes is reprehensible. Not being an expert, I've been suckered a couple times by fakes, repros and put-togethers sold as originals (more often than I had previously thought, it seems) and I have no use for those that resort to this sort of charade for the sake of a couple bucks.

Edited by USMCRECON, 02 February 2008 - 02:09 PM.


#39 ADMIN

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 07:23 PM

Here is the canteen pictures and auction link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

1.jpg
2.jpg

#40 ADMIN

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 07:28 PM

DevilDan1900 / germannpinkk has relisted the same piece for auction here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=190195852759

The listing wording was changed quite a bit and it is copied below as it appears on ebay (please make special note of the changes in the top paragraph and the addition of the last UPDATE):

Up for auction today is this great looking piece I purchased at an estate auction this past summer. I was told by a collector friend of mine that I showed it to that this hat is PURPORTEDLY MADE TO REPRESENT a United States Marine Corp Officers dress visor cap of the style dating from around the turn of the century, early 1900s era. The ornate woven wire on the brim, which not all of them had, was to represent a very high ranking officer, perhaps even a General! The cap has a very interesting and fancy braided knot on top of the crown as well as a gold chinstrap with a red strip accross the front. The "topknot" appears to have some minor fraying on some of the edges. There are domed brass buttons on either side of the chinstrap which depict an eagle clutching an anchor and stars. On the front of the cap is an EGA (eagle, globe, and anchor) badge which is two tone silver and bronze. The interior lining and sweatband are present as well as a diamond shaped maker's label which reads "Morry Luxenberg, Military Outfitters, New York and London, England." There are some dark stains to areas of the interior liner material and the sweatband is cracked and torn in one area with a small section of it missing. There are some dark colored stains on some areas of the liner. According to what I could find out online, at the turn of the Century, just prior to WW1, the Marine Corp was extremely small, under 3,000 men, and officer's items dating from this era are quite scarce today. A great piece, whatever it may be, to add to your U.S. Marine Corp or early U.S. Military collection.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Jan-29-08 at 15:41:37 PST, seller added the following information:

**Please note that I have tried to describe this piece as thoroughly as possible, but as I mentioned, this is not my area of expertise, I am not a collector and am simply passing on the opinions of a collector friend of mine on an item I purchased at a sale this summer. I very much encourage anyone who has any questions regarding the piece to e-mail me and I will be happy to do my best to fully answer them to the best of my ability, but please do so before the end of the auction as this piece is being sold "as is." Thanks and happy bidding.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Jan-31-08 at 13:04:01 PST, seller added the following information:

***To those buyers interested in this piece, I have literally recieved a flood of e-mails concerning it, everything from claims that it is a reproduction, to comments by actual Marines that it should be in a museum, even numerous offers to buy it outright! As I stated above, I am neither an expert in this field or a collector, this is simply an item I bought that I am offering for sale, nothing more, nothing less. So if you have any problems or concerns with this item, please do not bid. It has been honestly described to the best of my ability and is being sold "as Is." Once again, thanks and happy bidding!



****UPDATE - Due to some repeated, very threatening, and harrassing e-mails I have received regarding this item by members of some group, (which I have reported to ebay) I have decided to "play it safe" and re-list this hat as some sort of reproduction / prop piece. As the original use aparently is unknown, especially to me, I will let the buyers decide. I have received notes that this is a stunning, museum qualtiy piece, a Hollywood movie prop, a fireman's hat, an Army hat, a rare example, as well as multiple offers to buy it outright, as I mentioned, so apparently your guess is as good as mine. The information presented in the earlier listing was simply me repeating the opinion of a collector friend of mine whom I buy and sell items for and who examined the hat briefly in passing. My apologies to all the bidders and watchers who were affected by this re-listing. Thanks.



#41 CNY Militaria

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 07:42 PM

Wow, I just can't believe he is scamming this badly! He is clearly a collector and knows what he has. I wish he would come here and explain himself...

#42 ADMIN

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 08:27 PM

Well, I'm afraid to say it fellow community members, but this scam by germannpinkk / DevilDan1900 / Matt Boire / Matthew Boire doesn't get any better...

The following article is from the Museum Security Network Mailing list. You can find the article here and I will reproduce it here as well in case for one reason or another the link does not work
http://msn-list.te.v...ber/008017.html

Published August 29, 2007 06:52 pm - Matthew Boire returned to court
Wednesday to face five new charges in connection with Clinton County
Historical Association collection thefts.

Museum thefts bring more charges
By ANDREA VanVALKENBURG
Staff Writer


- PLATTSBURGH - After being arrested earlier this month, Matthew Boire told
police he was trying to sell a sword and scabbard from the Clinton County
Historical Association collection to help raise money for the museum.
The 25-year-old Plattsburgh man failed to mention he had already allegedly
taken an 1800s officer's saber, valued at more than $1,500, from the museum
and sold the antique weapon on eBay.
That's the same place where authorities previously found the missing museum
sword and scabbard posted for sale, which is what led to Boire's Aug. 13
arrest.
According to Plattsburgh City Court records, the new information has landed
Boire an additional felony charge of fourth-degree grand larceny in
connection with Plattsburgh City Police Department's ongoing investigation
into missing items at the Ohio Avenue museum.

NEW CHARGES
Besides the new grand-larceny charge, Boire is also now facing additional
charges of fourth-degree criminal possession of stolen property,
second-degree false sworn statement and fifth-degree criminal possession of
stolen property.
In total, Boire is facing three felony and two misdemeanor charges in
connection with the missing collections.
During the initial search of Boire's Oak Street residence earlier this
month, authorities allegedly recovered the sword that was posted online, a
second ceremonial sword and scabbard, an antique rifle and a Civil War-era
American flag.
Boire reportedly told authorities they were the only museum artifacts in his
possession. But during a subsequent search, authorities allegedly recovered
two additional missing weapons: a Starr single-action revolver and a Smith &
Wesson .32-caliber pistol.
Their discovery led to Boire's arrest on the false-sworn-statement charge.

MUSEUM INVENTORY
As the police investigation was continuing, Historical Association Board
Member and Treasurer Maurica Gilbert was asked to inventory the museum
collections.
Gilbert said she found at least four missing weapons: the Starr revolver,
Smith & Wesson pistol, a Harpers' Ferry pistol and a Sharps rifle.
According to court documentation, Gilbert also told authorities she found at
least four sabers or swords missing, including the officer's saber and Capt.
William B. Pratt's 1863 sword and scabbard, which was the sword authorities
previously found posted on eBay.
An antique weapons appraiser valued Pratt's unique bejewel-handled sword at
around $3,500.
The Harpers' Ferry pistol and a Masonic sword are still believed to be
missing.
In a previous statement to police, Boire said he took the items because
"there are internal problems with the museum where they are in debt for a
ridiculous amount of money.
"I wanted to raise money by selling some items that didn't have North
Country ties. Once I got the money, I would make a donation in either my
name or do it anonymously."
But, in a statement to authorities, Gilbert said: "As a board member of the
CCHA, I am aware that no one has or had permission to possess or sell the
above items (missing weapons) on behalf of the museum or for themselves."
Boire, who was a board member at the time, has declined to comment on the
charges since his initial arrest and is scheduled to reappear with his
attorney, Stephen Johnston, Sept. 19 to face the charges.

E-mail Andrea VanValkenburg at:
avanvalkenburg at pressrepublican.com



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the follow up following his plea on felony charges:
http://msn-list.te.v...ber/008445.html

Published October 26, 2007 02:02 pm -

Matthew Boire pleads guilty to reduced charges in thefts from Clinton County
Historical Association.

Boire admits to stealing museum pieces


By ANDREA VanVALKENBURG
Staff Writer


PLATTSBURGH - After admitting to taking items from the Clinton County
Historical Association, Matthew Boire said his actions have lifetime
consequences and excised him from the museum.

"I realize now that, regardless of my intentions, what a grave and
destructive mistake I have made," the former Historical Association board
member said Friday morning after pleading guilty to reduced charges.

When Plattsburgh City Judge Penelope Clute asked if he understood how deeply
his actions affected the association and its members, Boire said, "I'm very
apologetic for what I've done and for any embarrassment publicly that I have
caused the organization."


Standing beside his attorney, Stephen Johnston, Boire said he took full
responsibility for his actions. He pleaded guilty to petit larceny and
fifth-degree criminal possession of stolen property in satisfaction of the
three felony and two misdemeanor charges he was originally facing.

The 25-year-old Plattsburgh native was first arrested in early August after
former board member Phil Gordon spotted the museum's 1863 bejewel-handled
sword and scabbard posted for sale on eBay.

After Gordon contacted the museum, Historical Association President Roger
Harwood filed a complaint with Plattsburgh City Police, and Boire was
arrested on a felony charge of third-degree criminal possession of stolen
property.

Authorities executed a search warrant at Boire's Oak Street residence and
located two ceremonial swords and scabbards, including the one posted
online; an antique rifle; and a Civil War-era American flag

In a statement to police, Boire said he took the items from the museum
intending to sell them and donate the proceeds to the association.

During his brief court appearance, Boire admitted that he did not have
permission to sell the items, including the 1800s officer's saber, which he
had already sold on eBay.

"I didn't give it (the money) to them," Boire quietly told the judge, who
acknowledged that Boire had already paid nearly $1,000 in restitution to the
Pennsylvania man who purchased the sword.

In late August, Boire was arrested for the online sale and for making a
false statement to authorities by saying the recovered items were the only
collections he took from the Ohio Avenue museum, though the subsequent
search uncovered the other items.

As the investigation was continuing, museum officials inventoried their
collections and realized a Harpers' Ferry pistol and Masonic sword also
appeared to be missing, and though neither resulted in criminal charges,
Boire recently returned the 1808 pistol.

It was unclear whether the Masonic sword is still missing.

"The items that he admitted to removing from us, stealing from us, have been
returned," Harwood said Friday.

"The Clinton County Historical Association has worked to the very best of
our ability to determine what items are missing, and the City Police
Department, I believe, has worked to their best ability, with other
agencies, to recover the stolen items."
Harwood said the organization has remained united through the last few
months, though the thefts caused members an enormous amount of tracking
work.

"We just need to move on from this," he said.

Boire is scheduled to return to court for sentencing Dec. 21. Under the
terms of the negotiated plea, he is expected to get three years probation,
community service and a $1,000 fine.


E-mail Andrea VanValkenburg at:

avanvalkenburg at pressrepublican.com

http://www.pressrepublican.com/


------------------------------

These articles can also be found here at the Press Republican:
http://www.pressrepu..._241214523.html
http://www.pressrepu..._014113830.html

1.jpg

Other places also reproducted the articles so just search on Google under "Matthew Boire."

#43 Gutkowski

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 09:20 PM

Here is the canteen pictures and auction link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

1.jpg
2.jpg

The canteen is not on E-bay now ?He is pulling all his items someone should call the police and see what else is missing from the museum :blink:

Edited by Gutkowski, 02 February 2008 - 09:21 PM.


#44 Gutkowski

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 09:29 PM

Here are some other items from him and where he works ......


(FORUM EDITOR'S NOTE: I appreciate your intent, but we have learned that there are two people in that area with this exact same name and one of them is a highly regarded civic and business leader so we have to be sure we don't confuse them.)

Edited by Forum Support, 02 February 2008 - 09:37 PM.


#45 Bank Vault

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 09:36 PM

This is just proof that we have to watch who we let into our collections. It is really sad but the way it is, plain out.

#46 Bob Hudson

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:45 PM

The canteen is not on E-bay now ?He is pulling all his items someone should call the police and see what else is missing from the museum :blink:


Yes he is hustling to cover his tracks but it's too late.

#47 Brig

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:54 PM

threats from some members of a group he's reported to eBay? How is reporting an entire community to eBay going to do anything? eBay makes a ton of money from its share of our purchases alone

#48 GLM *Deceased*

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:21 PM

Well, I thought I recognized a couple of those pieces. It appears the seller germannpinkk is USMF member DevilDan1900.

Here is the "SAW Era VFW Medal Fob to USMC Marine Officer - Named!!!" watch fob that germannpinkk purchased:
http://www.usmilitar...d...c=14712&hl=

And here is the "Military Troop B 1 Cross Sword Medal & Pin Free Ship" pin that germannpinkk purchased:
http://www.usmilitar...d...c=14783&hl=

I've forwarded him along to this thread. Hopefully he will see it in time to end the auction.


ADMIN -

What can I say. I just read the Announcement Board message and DD1900's banishment from our forum. I commend you on your excellent bit of detective work...and decision to rid us of this unbelievable form of lowlife.

It just goes to show that some of the members fears and paranoia, mine included, about the fakers lurking here and learning how to deceive completely were well founded.

Excellent work!!

s/f, Gary

#49 Bob Hudson

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:30 PM

It just goes to show that some of the members fears and paranoia, mine included, about the fakers lurking here and learning how to deceive completely were well founded.


Actually what busted him is that he did a half-baked job of faking it - guess we did not teach him well.

I just found this recent post of his on the forum:


I'm not that afraid of theft. I live in the middle of nowhere, in a middle of nowhere part of my state. My collection is housed in the inner recesses of my house, is only shown to my close personal friends, and on top of all that, I keep my M1917 Winchester 97 12 gauge trench gun two feet from my bed cool.gif By all means, someone break in, . . . I double dog dare ya.

#50 usmcaviator

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:40 PM

All I can say is, WOW! Like I said, he is desperate. He was probably trying to pay legal fees with his last bid of fraud. I never wanted to be the guy to burst his bubble about his "Dan Daly" cap, he was so proud of that fake thing. Anyone remember his claims about that cap?

Is ADMIN going to start doing yahoo searches on everyone's name? Bob, if you find anything on me, I swear there must be someone else by the same name who collects militaria and who is a Marine! It wasn't me.

Mike


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