KASTAUFFER Posted January 26, 2008 Share #1 Posted January 26, 2008 I just picked up this nice early Aviation Green Naval Aviators uniform with a beautiful pair of 3.5 Inch gold bullion wings on them . They are HUGE. Another thing that is unusual is the width of the Ensign stripe on the cuffs. It is very thin . This is the earliest Aviation Green uniform I have found dated prior to 1940 . I know I can ID the owner if I could just MAKE OUT HIS INITIALS!!! I am having a hard time deciding what the monogrammed initials inside the coat really are. I thing it is S.T.H , but it could be something else . The uniform is dated January 1937 and an Av Cadet Scott Hawkins earned his wings in Feb 1937 . The name looks like Hawkins on the tailor label , but 70 years have made it almost washed out. I'd love to get opinions on what you all think the intitials are. Thanks! Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share #2 Posted January 26, 2008 The tags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share #3 Posted January 26, 2008 This looks like it might be " Hawkins " . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger Gunner USMC Posted January 26, 2008 Share #4 Posted January 26, 2008 The initials are S P H so Hawkins would make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steindaddie Posted January 26, 2008 Share #5 Posted January 26, 2008 I messed around a bit with your photos and came up with what I would call a "Hawkins" The H is clear enough...maybe part of an A...then the K I N S Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted January 26, 2008 Share #6 Posted January 26, 2008 ... Another thing that is unusual is the width of the Ensign stripe on the cuffs. It is very thin... Would that thin stripe have been used to designate an Aviation Cadet? Unless he was an Annapolis graduate, an Aviation Cadet graduating in 1937 would not have been given Ensign rank until after Roosevelt signed the Naval Reserve Act of 1939. There was that sort of netherworld from 1935 to 1939 when Pensacola graduates were to have stayed as Aviation Cadets for the remainder of their first four years of service at the end of which they would become Lt. JG's. The 1939 law provided for them to be commissioned as ensigns after graduating from Pensacola. I've wondered what the Aviation Cadets on duty with the fleet wore in the way of rank on their uniforms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted January 26, 2008 Share #7 Posted January 26, 2008 Kurt: Feb 1937-38. Scott P. Hawkins, naval reserve, av cadet, VCS-5- USS Chicago. Cruiser Division 5. Ship had 3 Av cadets and two Av (Lt Moss/Schwartz) assigned. Does not show on active duty 39. Dirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted January 26, 2008 Share #8 Posted January 26, 2008 Kurt: Feb 1937-38. Scott P. Hawkins, naval reserve, av cadet, VCS-5- USS Chicago. Cruiser Division 5. Ship had 3 Av cadets and two Av (Lt Moss/Schwartz) assigned. Does not show on active duty 39. Dirk Looks like he was killed in an aircraft accident, according to this 1938 MIT newspaper: This is from the Cole County Missouri, Riverview Cemetery records at http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/mo/co...s/rivervw03.txt HAWKINS SCOTT POPE 8/1/1939 USN AVIATOR LOST AT SEA I found this excerpt from his his maternal grandfather's bio at: http://tinyurl.com/33js5p Mr. Pope was married twice. On Christmas day of 1869, in North Carolina, his first marriage was celebrated. but his wife lived for only a few months. His second marriage occurred in Jefferson City, June 19, 1873, when Lucy Miller became his wife. Her people were pioneer settlers of Missouri, the families moving from Kentucky to this state at an early date. Her father was Hon. George W. Miller, who was judge of the circuit court of Cole county for a quarter of a century prior to his death. Mrs. Pope passed away February 27, 1910. By her marriage she had become the mother of three daughters. Mary Louise, the wife of Horace B. Church, Jr., of Jefferson City, and the mother of two children, Elizabeth Kennedy and Mary Louise; Lucy Winfield, the wife of A. L. Hawkins, who is with the Graham Paper Company of St. Louis and has one child, Scott Pope Hawkins... and this from http://www.colecohistsoc.org/bios/bio_p.html: Winfield Scott Pope Hon. Winfield Scott Pope Hon. Winfield Scott Pope, the son of Thomas Pope and Mary Ann Hale Pope, was a native of North Carolina. He was born on a farm in Davidson County in that state, July 20, 1847, and died in Jefferson City, Missouri, April 13, 1921. In his youthful days he attended the Davidson Academy and became a student at the Hillsboro Military Academy at Hillsboro, North Carolina, where he was a cadet during the Civil War period. About the close of the war he started west and traveled by rail to Rolla, Missouri, afterwards across the country to Marshfield, Webster, County, where many former residents of North Carolina had settled. He taught school there during the time he read and studied law. In February 1867, he was admitted to the bar and entered upon the active practice of law at Hartville, Wright County, where he was elected to the Missouri House of Representatives from that district in 1872. While in Jefferson City serving in the Legislature he met Miss Lucy Miller, and on June 19, 1873, they were married in Jefferson City at the home of her father, Hon. George Wear Miller (see sketch), at that time judge of the circuit that included Cole County. Soon after Mr. Pope’s marriage and the expiration of his term of office, he moved to Jefferson City where he entered the practice of law which he continued during his entire life. In Jefferson City were born and reared his three daughters, Mrs. Horace B. Church, Jr., former Mary Louise Pope, died September 2, 1938. Mrs. Winfield Pope Hawkins (formerly Lucy Winfield Pope) lived in St. Louis. The youngest daughter, Mrs. Frances M. Cockrell, Jr., (Miller Chappell Pope) died in 1919. Mr. and Mrs. Pope were married for thirty-seven years, Mrs. Pope’s death occurring in 1910. Mr. Pope again served in the lower house of the legislature in 1897, being elected from Cole County, and was a member of the Commission that made the revision of the statutes in 1899. He was active in the pioneer times and in his younger days rode the circuit on horseback, attending the various sessions of court with the contemporary lawyers and judges. He was both a criminal and civil lawyer, but in later years, as law became more specialized, his practice was mostly civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted January 26, 2008 Author Share #9 Posted January 26, 2008 Thanks for all the information! You guys rock The thin stripe must be for Av-Cadet , I didnt even think about that . His death would also explain why the rank was never increased. Thanks!!! Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADMIN Posted January 26, 2008 Share #10 Posted January 26, 2008 I wonder what the official documents would say about the cause of the death. Sounds very odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marmer Posted January 26, 2008 Share #11 Posted January 26, 2008 The poor guy probably had a similar av-khaki with a thin black cuff stripe, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicjoy1945 Posted January 26, 2008 Share #12 Posted January 26, 2008 Hey Kurt !! Man...nice work board members !! Thats what the boards are all about !! Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share #13 Posted March 23, 2009 UPDATE I was contacted by a person who found my post who was a personal friend of Scott Hawkins. He sent me a very nice email about what had happened to Scott. It are comments like this that breathe life into what would otherwise just be a piece of cloth: ------------------------------------------------------------ Mr, Stauffer: Thanks for getting back to me so promptly. It was frustrating not being able to reach you thru the Militira Forum. I ran across your questions quite by accident while researching something else. I've read what the others have sent you and most of it is correct, Scott Hawkins was a friend of both my father and my mother before my parents married. I remember him well, he was a very good looking guy with dark blond hair. When he'd fly into St. Louis he would come over to our house arrive in riding breeches, riding boots, silk scarf and helmet with goggles and I, age 5 or 6 or 7 would immediately grab that and wear it untill he left. I visited his wonderful mother when I was in Jefferson City which is where "Winnie" as she was known erected a memorial to his memory. It bears the inscription "No Greater Love.....etc." She had been told he was on a search and rescue mission(and maybe he was although my dad didn't think so.) for 12 downed naval airman whose bomber had crashed in the sea. There was an elaborate memorial ceremony here at NAS San Diego on Sunday 23 January , 1938, several weeks after he was killed. The accident report reads as follows: Summarized account of accident: At 1445, 6 January 1938, while on an authorized patrol flight, the pilot of this airplane, SOC-1 9893(5-CS-4) accidently vacated the forward cocpit. The route followed by the pilot was over the top of the cockpit enclosures and against the vertical fin, from which he fell overboard, The pilot's impact against the vertical fin caused the damage covered by this trouble report. The plane was flown for approximately 2.5 hours after it sustained the above damage by the occupant of the rear seat, and was returned to the ship without further damage. Damage: Vertical Fin: Leading edge damaged and bent back against internal vertical beam for about 12 inches of its length. Rudder: Fabric torn on right side resulting in a hole about 12" square. The structal members of the rudder were not damaged. Fixed Radio Antenna: Carried away Injury to personel: Av. Cdt. S.P. Hawkins, USNA, lost at sea. The ship as you know was the USS Chicago and for the recond the guy in the back seat that brought the aircarft back safely was Av. Cdt. J. H. Mack, USNR . I have a photo of Scott but I can't find it. It might be with my brother in St. Louis but he is remodeling his house and all his stuff is in storage. I'll try to find the photo, I'm sure you'd enjoy having a copy....Sincerely, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted March 23, 2009 Share #14 Posted March 23, 2009 A tragic end to the "rest of the story" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted March 23, 2009 Share #15 Posted March 23, 2009 Kurt: Glad you were able to put a another link in Lt Hawkins story and the info provided is very moving indeed. It makes the uniform something unique. Thank you for sharing and thanks to the person who kindly provided this missing piece to his story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Tweak Posted March 26, 2009 Share #16 Posted March 26, 2009 You guys sure are resourceful. This really is a fantastic history behind that uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItemCo16527 Posted March 27, 2009 Share #17 Posted March 27, 2009 Absolutely amazing story. This is the kind of thing that makes me truly love our hobby. One thing does trouble me, though. The report states that "...the pilot of this airplane ... accidently vacated the forward cocpit." How is that possible? I'm not questioning the veracity of the report, I'm just curious as to how that could have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share #18 Posted July 25, 2012 Just found this curtosy of Fold3! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uplandmod Posted July 25, 2012 Share #19 Posted July 25, 2012 Tragic Story.... I have a love for SOC's so having a uniform of one such as this is incredible......and sobering. Glad we can keep his memory alive. :salute: Leonardo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK Posted July 26, 2012 Share #20 Posted July 26, 2012 Not sure how I missed this thread years back. Nice uniform and great detective work by all involved! FOLD3 is becoming a greater resource every year! I've been digging up some great info on some of my groupings over the past year that weren't there previously. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Sgt CES Posted July 28, 2012 Share #21 Posted July 28, 2012 Great Bullion Wings ---Blue Skies Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted July 28, 2012 Share #22 Posted July 28, 2012 From Uniform Regulations, United States Navy, 1922, Change Number 13 (29 May, 1936): Paragraph 6 (d): Aviation cadets, after graduation from Pensacola, shall wear the same uniform as prescribed for other Naval Reserve officers, with the exceptions that the gold lace stripes on the sleeves and on the shoulder marks shall be only one-quarter inch in width and the chin strap on the cap shall also be only one-quarter inch in width. Aviation cadets shall not wear epaulets. The aviation devices hall be of the gold embroidered type sewed on the left breast on blue uniforms and of the pin type on washable uniforms. The metal pin device to be worn on the shirt collar (see par. 207) shall be a silver foul anchor five-eighths inch in length with a proportionate width. These devices shall be in rights and lefts and be worn with the shank of the anchor parallel with the top edge of the collar and the crown of the anchor to the front. That's a great uniform and story, though a sad ending. Justin B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share #23 Posted July 2, 2016 Bringing this back up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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