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WWII Pocket Knife marked “MD-USN”


thorin6
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Here is another knife from the weekend Raleigh show. I sold two steel knives and picked up two, this one and the M2 I wrote about earlier. I’ve always had this one on my want list, just never had the opportunity to pick one up at a reasonable price. Marked MD-USN, this was made for the Medical Department of the US Navy during WWII. I believe these knives may have been issued to the Navy Medical Corpsmen that would accompany the USMC during combat in the Pacific, but I would appreciate any confirmation of that supposition.
It has the usual four blades, lightly sharpened; all blades snap fine, no real problems. The main blade is marked with the four line CAMILLUS over CUTLERY CO over CAMILLUS NY over USA.

 

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Here it is with its comrades in arms, the US Army Engineer knife and the US Navy/Coast Guard Easy Opener knife. All three are Camillus four-line marked.

 

post-66-0-95707000-1421361439.jpg

 

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Still-A-Marine

Nice pickup. Gotta love those bone handled Camillus folders. Especially the versions with the shields.

 

My understanding is almost anyone in the Navy Medical Department would be likely to carry one of these. That would also include the corpsman.

 

Bill

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Corpsmancollector
Nice pickup. Gotta love those bone handled Camillus folders. Especially the versions with the shields.

 

My understanding is almost anyone in the Navy Medical Department would be likely to carry one of these. That would also include the corpsman.

 

Bill

 

I'm with Bill on this one. Great find! I'm still hunting for one...

 

Will

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I'm still hunting for one...

 

Will,

 

How hard are you looking? :think: They are not common, but they turn up on eB** fairly often. While not as nice as thorin6's, one sold on that auction site this morning for the BIN price of $42. I was tempted, but I already have a nice one.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-US-Navy-Camill...e-/150839750184

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Corpsmancollector

GB,

 

In all fairness, not hard enough obviously! :lol:

 

I try to keep an eye out on eBay but more often than not US sellers aren't too keen to ship edged weapons across the pond (understandably) and it's also very difficult to have pocket knives sent over here as they're classed as a 'hidden' blade which is restricted on the customs import list sadly... :pinch:

 

One of these days though... :thumbsup:

 

Will

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GB,

 

In all fairness, not hard enough obviously! :lol:

 

I try to keep an eye out on eBay but more often than not US sellers aren't too keen to ship edged weapons across the pond (understandably) and it's also very difficult to have pocket knives sent over here as they're classed as a 'hidden' blade which is restricted on the customs import list sadly... :pinch:

 

One of these days though... :thumbsup:

 

Will

 

Bummer! :ermm: Well, good luck! :thumbsup:

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I believe these knives may have been issued to the Navy Medical Corpsmen that would accompany the USMC during combat in the Pacific, but I would appreciate any confirmation of that supposition.

 

I have one of these that I got with a small group from a WW2 Navy Corpsman many years ago. He told me that they were a part of the "kit" that they were issued for field service.

 

This is apparently verified in the website

 

http://www.mtaofnj.org/content/WWII%20Comb...wwii_corpsm.htm

 

"The following list of contents for the Hospital Corps Pouch was submitted by Roger "Doc" Dean. A few years ago "Doc" found an example of a Hospital Corps Pouch in an antique store. The list of contents was factory printed on the flap of the pouch.

 

Hospital Corps Pouch (Small)

 

6 Bandages,Gauze

1 Diagnosis Tag w/ Pencil (I probably means 1 book)

4 Tubes Tincture of Iodine

1 Btl Ammonia

2 Rubber Tourniquets

1 Case,Pins,Scissors,Forceps

8 Pkgs. Sublimated Gauze

1 Jack Knife

1 Spool Adhesive Plaster

1 Roll Wire for Splints"

 

I have no doubt that the knife was also carried by many other Navy medical personnel as well.

 

Further information about the Camillus version can be found on page 14 of:

 

http://www.collectors-of-camillus.us/Histo...-1941-1945s.pdf

 

MD-USNSpecs.jpg

 

My particular specimen is all steel with a nickel steel clevice / shackle (note that what we usually call the Bail is called both a clevice and a shackle on this page. P.S. The correct spelling is actually clevis - no wonder that collectors get confused!)

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I also find this to be interesting, in the Spec's, from the sheet that Gary posted:

 

"Marking MD-USN on shield or cutting blade. No shield required."

 

If any were actually produced w/o a shield the blade marking may have been, a fairly easily obliterated, acid etching.

 

I seem to recall some relatively recent posts of these types of pocket knives, w/o shields, and the question of them being "actual" Issue.

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......more often than not US sellers aren't too keen to ship edged weapons across the pond (understandably) and it's also very difficult to have pocket knives sent over here as they're classed as a 'hidden' blade which is restricted on the customs import list sadly... :pinch:

One of these days though... :thumbsup:Will

Will........how about if I ship it in pieces?? :rolleyes:

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I also find this to be interesting, in the Spec's, from the sheet that Gary posted:

 

"Marking MD-USN on shield or cutting blade. No shield required."

 

If any were actually produced w/o a shield the blade marking may have been, a fairly easily obliterated, acid etching.

 

I seem to recall some relatively recent posts of these types of pocket knives, w/o shields, and the question of them being "actual" Issue.

 

Don,

 

Begging your pardon, you do not recall all the facts about that post. I will be the first one to admit that lots of "these types" of pocket knives without shields were "actual" issue. The post in question was Bill's and he said that the Western engineer's knife he had was like the one on Mike Silvey's book; then he asked for opinions. I told him that I didn't think so because the knife on Mike's book had a scutcheon plate, while his didn't. Later, Bill posted Frank Trzaska's answer on another Forum to the effect that they were WWII era based on the the design and the steel liners. He added thet he didn't know of any other time that steel was used for liners with this can opener design.

 

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...=145827&hl=

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GB,

 

Thank you for posting the link to that most recent post on these type knives.

 

In review of my last post, and with the way in which the paragraph/sentence indents turned out:

I do notice where it could easily be read as "...question them of being "actual" Issue."...

Instead of "and the question [involved] of them being "actual" Issue."

 

All that I intended to illustrate was that the absence of a "shield" or "escutcheon plate", would not necessarily preclude the knife from being "actual Issue"; from what is known/surmised.

Especially in noticing the above quoted Spec's of "...No shield required."

 

It would be cool to find one with a 'blade mark'; as noted, as possible, from Spec's.

 

Kind Regards,

Don.

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Still-A-Marine

Has anyone ever seen a Camillus WWII 4 Blade Engineer's folder without a shield?

 

The Western, Ulster, and 3 "Made In USA" (one of each type of can opener) I have don't have shields. I have not seen a Camillus without one.

 

Bill

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It would be cool to find one with a 'blade mark'; as noted, as possible, from Spec's.

Don,

 

Agreed! The search is on! :thumbsup:

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Corpsmancollector
Will........how about if I ship it in pieces?? :rolleyes:

 

You might be onto something there JS! ;) :thumbsup:

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  • 2 years later...

I know this thread is a couple years old but here is a knife that is currently on ebay that is marked MD USN on the blade. I didn't know what era this knife was from but after reading this thread I have a better idea.

 

Thanks!

 

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Would having the screwdriver blade on the same end of the knife as the main blade indicate that it's at the earlier side of the War production? Or would this configuration be consistent with all the MD-USN types?

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Has anyone ever seen a Camillus WWII 4 Blade Engineer's folder without a shield?

 

The Western, Ulster, and 3 "Made In USA" (one of each type of can opener) I have don't have shields. I have not seen a Camillus without one.

 

Bill

Bill, I imagine you have found one by now, I have seen a few over the years. Most are late and may have the 3 line marking and brass liners. They were supplied with assortments for the Quartermaster Corps for sale in the PX system.

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Would having the screwdriver blade on the same end of the knife as the main blade indicate that it's at the earlier side of the War production? Or would this configuration be consistent with all the MD-USN types?

 

As far as I know, this configuration is consistent with 1941-43 MD-USN knives. This one was made by Imperial (marked on the screw-driver blade) as best I can make out. I don't have enough information to vouch for it being correct, but it seems so.

 

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I really like that tang stamped knife to bad the leather punch is broke in half. This knife is consistent with manufacturing as stated in the Camillus spec sheets and Imperial manufactured knives of the era. I also think that it should be picked up even with the punch being broke due to its rarity.

To add to Gary's post #18 you will find a variety of the no shield engineer/QM knives with 3 line and 4 lines also brass or all steel even combinations of. Attached is a worn bargain bin pick up some time ago that is a 3 line all steel. I know I've also seen 3 lines with brass spacers and believe 4 lined ones with all steel and brass spacers. The fun never ends.

 

 

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The 4 blade "Engineer Knife" is a collecting field all its own. Multiple variations by several makers making for an interesting collecting field. I have thought from time to time about assembling a collection, but I already have too many fields for the budget to absorb another one, even though most of these knives are relatively inexpensive.

 

Here is one that I got many years ago from a local Army vet. He did not join the Army until 1944 when he turned 18 and graduated from High School. He remembers buying this knife from the PX just before shipping out to Europe in December 1944. He used it quite a bit, the bone stag handles chipped and cracked, but it is still functional. Not a high end collectible but I appreciate the knives that I have that came directly from the vet. 3 line marking.

 

Described by Camillus as 4 blade, Bone Stag, brass lined and brass center scale, steel bolsters, short shackle, bladed spear, old can opener, old screwdriver caplifter, plain punch.

 

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After refreshing my memory with the Camillus spec sheets a few questions arose. On the page with the MD-USN knife it does mention there that a portion of the Imperial knives were rejected due to faulty can openers this would suggest why these tang stamped blade knives are quite illusive. I'm surprised nobody snatched that guy up on the first auction go around as at least to have an example for the time being.

On this spec sheet Bureau of Medicine & Surgery specification 41-J-001a is dated April 1941. This is amendment A so first question what is the original spec dated?

The next question ...what was the BuMed using for the corpsman pouches prior to this specification?

Attached is a list of components for the large and small corpsman pouches from the navy medical department supply catalog of 1940, both list jackknife. Was it always a component? I am thinking the knives supplied were much the BuAer which I discussed in another thread and this knife is the official standardized knife under government specification. Are there MD-USN knives with bras spacers? this might be the pre war model then switching to all steel in September 1942.

 

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