Opinions on M1 Garand Bayonet Please

[usherman]

Hi All;

 

Can I please get some opinions on this bayonet? I am trying to determine if it has been refinished. If more pictures are needed, please let me know. Thank you in advance!

 

[usherman]

[usherman]

[usherman]

[MikeL]

I would say yes, it has been refinished. In post #4 there look to be diagonal marks/scratches possibly from sharpening but they are the same color as the overall finish. This makes me believe the current finish was applied after the marks were made.

[DSchlagan]

I would agree that this has been re-Parkerized.

Also appears to be somewhat of an inswept curve, from repeated sharpening.

 

Your M7 scabbard appears to have been shortened from a M3, as well.

 

Regards,

Don.

[Misfit 45]

If the edge is "inswept", that's not so good. It may be a shadow which makes it look that way. Personally, I do not subtract value based upon whether or not the bayonet has been through a military repair and refurbish. It still comes down to the condition of the bayonet itself. If the blade looks unsharpened and the grips are new looking, I don't care if it's arsenal reparked. In fact, a perfect looking repark compared to an excellent condition M1 with 80% parkerizing, I'm not sure which one I would prefer. I would definitely want both of them!! An absolutely perfect off the shelf U.C. M1 will sometimes have rough tool marks and may fool someone into thinking it has been reparkerized yet is not. Unless your M1 has been sharpened repeatedly, as suggested earlier, I think it's a fine collectable bayonet.

Marv

[usherman]

Thank you for all the replies!

 

...In post #4 there look to be diagonal marks/scratches possibly from sharpening but they are the same color as the overall finish. This makes me believe the current finish was applied after the marks were made.

 

 

That was one of my concerns. The diagonal scratches (1) along with the ding (2) are both parkerized. There are also "pits" or divots near the maker's stamp that are finished over. I have other bayonets that exhibit the "pits" on an otherwise mint blade, but not the diagonal scratches.

 

...Also appears to be somewhat of an inswept curve, from repeated sharpening.

 

I think the curve is a photographic distortion. It appears straight when looking down the edge of the blade.

 

...An absolutely perfect off the shelf U.C. M1 will sometimes have rough tool marks and may fool someone into thinking it has been reparkerized yet is not.

 

Would the diagonal scratches qualify as "tool marks"?

 

...Personally, I do not subtract value based upon whether or not the bayonet has been through a military repair and refurbish. It still comes down to the condition of the bayonet itself. If the blade looks unsharpened and the grips are new looking, I don't care if it's arsenal reparked. In fact, a perfect looking repark compared to an excellent condition M1 with 80% parkerizing, I'm not sure which one I would prefer.

 

I appreciate and value your opinion! However, I purchased this as a "mint condition original" and would prefer that over a re-finished example. As far as collector value is concerned, all else being equal - wouldn't an nonrefurbished original command a much higher price? Not arguing, just asking

 

[Jack's Son]

I would return it, and wait until you find what you are really looking for. This bayonet will never make you Truely happy, because you will always have doubts. Unload it now, rather then take a loss on it in the future. Just an opinion.

[DSchlagan]

There appears no 'glint' on the edge, from sharpening, either.

Yes, I also noticed the Parked-over "ding" on the blade.

 

I have a 'near-as-mint' A.F.H as one could likely find. It has the original sharpening glint, as well as some very light scabbard marks.

There are absolutely no "tooling marks", on it, either.

 

The one that you have also shows no signs of any scabbard wear, which would be expected.

 

Regards,

Don.

[usherman]

I would return it, and wait until you find what you are really looking for. This bayonet will never make you Truely happy, because you will always have doubts. Unload it now, rather then take a loss on it in the future. Just an opinion.

 

Good advice - I think that is what I will do.

 

Thank you all for your replies!

[Misfit 45]

There appears no 'glint' on the edge, from sharpening, either.

Yes, I also noticed the Parked-over "ding" on the blade.

 

I have a 'near-as-mint' A.F.H as one could likely find. It has the original sharpening glint, as well as some very light scabbard marks.

There are absolutely no "tooling marks", on it, either.

 

The one that you have also shows no signs of any scabbard wear, which would be expected.

 

Regards,

Don.

Here's a question I'd like to know the answer to: Was is it the usual policy of all if not most of the companies to sharpen the M1 bayonet AFTER parkerizing? I know it was done on the M4 through M7 bayonets, but I am not sure about the M1. The M1 is not generally known as a "sharp" bayonet. How about the long garand bayonet. Was the 1905/42 sharpened after parkerizing? I have a near mint OL 16in which was not sharpened after parkerizing. The same goes for the 1917 dated (and after) 1905 bayonets. Were they sharpened after blueing or parkerizing? I have several M1s that do not have the "glint", including a stone cold mint UC that has no hints of sharpening or scabbard marks; maybe it's reparked. I'm very curious as to what opinions are out there. Thanks,

Marv

[usherman]

... Was is it the usual policy of all if not most of the companies to sharpen the M1 bayonet AFTER parkerizing?

 

I'd like to know this as well. I have several other M1 bayonets that have all indications of being untouched orginals, but no "bright edge".

[DSchlagan]

Although the sharpening on my AFH M1 appears to have been done at the factory, it is possible that someone with HIGH expertise at sharpening could have done it afterward. (It has that steep/crisp/evenness to the edge, that is noted when viewing a factory job.)

This bayonet appears as un-issued, otherwise, with a considerable amount of cosmolene remaining on it, from ricasso to pommel.

 

The only other comparable condition M1 that I have is a "N P / U [O*] S / J". It was NOT sharpened after Parked. (Although that one is rather unusual, in and of itself.)

 

 

IIRC, the M4 through M7 knife bayonets, were actually spec'd to be sharpened after Parkerized; as Marv similarly noted.

 

The M1 is not generally known as a "sharp" bayonet.

I would suppose that most M1s would not have been factory sharpened after Parked (or even highly sharpened prior), due to their 'conventional' bayonet design; therein the difference between that style, and a "knife bayonet".

 

Perhaps Gary or Bill will have a more definitive answer for us all...

 

Regards,

Don.

[M10]

Could it have been reworked and refinished at the factory due to a defect preventing it from being released on the first try?

[DSchlagan]

Although there was a great deal of re-use/re-purpose going on in the Second War, the fact that this one has that Parked-over chip along with some relatively nasty sharpening marks, I would be rather doubtful that this one was reworked prior to leaving the factory the first time.

 

Though, as others have noted, there exists quite some differences between makers, and even within certain makers' batches.

This is especially apparent with the M1905E1s (shortened to 10" M1 length, from 16" blade), as there is a great variance due to the amount of handwork involved.

 

Regards,

Don.

[SKIPH]

Hey Gang! I'm not sure if this will help or not. Item #120914215650. It's a AFH, appears to have scabbard wear, but the pics show a distinctive line of white. Magnify it. It doesn't appear to have been sharpened, but could have worn do to scabbard. I have a mint PAL M1 in the wrapper, but am very reluctant to unwrap it just to look at the edge. What are your thoughts? SKIP

[Misfit 45]

Hey Gang! I'm not sure if this will help or not. Item #120914215650. It's a AFH, appears to have scabbard wear, but the pics show a distinctive line of white. Magnify it. It doesn't appear to have been sharpened, but could have worn do to scabbard. I have a mint PAL M1 in the wrapper, but am very reluctant to unwrap it just to look at the edge. What are your thoughts? SKIP

 

I'm not trying to lobby for any side of the issue, but this particular ebay M1 looks to me to be hand sharpened. There is a tendency to "get wide" on the last inch and a half of the blade. It's not a consistent angle towards the tip. Just an observation.

Marv

[SKIPH]

Well for whatever it's worth, I pulled out my mint in wrapper PAL M1. I only had to stretch the wrap a little to see a very distinct line of white. So PAL sharpened their bayonets, after the parkerizing was added. At least on mine. SKIP

[DSchlagan]

IMHO, the eBay M1 has been sharpened. Note shallow-angle marks on spearpoint.

 

 

I was kinda wondering if "final" sharpening of M1s was maker (in)dependent; as seems to be possible/plausible.

 

I almost seem to recall reading similar...

 

Regards,

Don.

 

P.S. I notice that my 'speedy' photo-journalistic-skill, has many of these points already discussed.

 

I'll grab my camera, at some point, and take a polaroid of my AFH. It is crisp and consistent right out to the point of blade.

[SKIPH]

Misfit, and Don-No argument here on whether the AFH was sharpened, just trying to get one to compare. I did check out, and fortunately didn't have to rip open the PAL. My curiosity was peaked, and since I have a mint one, it was my responsibility as a forum member to check it out. Luckily, I didn't have to make the supreme sacrifice, and open it up. LOL! SKIP

[Misfit 45]

I pulled out some of the M1s in my collection. The Pal has the "glint", the UFH has it and the UC does not. Looks like the usual practice was to give a very light edge to the newly parkerized M1s. The others were not mint so not counted in the mix.

Marv

[avenger1212]

I had posted these photos to another thread I had started a while back, but even though this one is an older thread, it is talking about the exact same thing I was asking about, whether or not a mint M1 would exhibit factory sharpening.

 

I just bought a PAL, and it is pretty much mint except that it does show some light sharpening. So light along the blade edge it's hardly noticeable, but is more so at the spear tip (top and bottom edges) and towards the back. I can't see someone sharpening this bayonet with this level of expertise in their garage. It makes me feel like others have thought, that they did a light sharpening in some of the factories after they were parkerized. Here's mine:

 

 

 

 

[avenger1212]

 

I hope this adds something to this discussion so we can learn more about if this practice was done in factories or not.

[Misfit 45]

Hi,

First of all, we cannot assume that the process in making a brand new M1 was the same as used to cut down and refurbish a 1905 bayonet. I believe that it was a universal practice to do a light sharpening on the new M1 bayonet after the parkerizing process. On cut down M1 bayonets the practice did not seem to be consistent from one manufacturer to another. Who did the cut down job on your PAL? As a point of fact, each 1905 that was cut down was necessarily re-parked. Many of the 1905s in line to be cut down were already sharpened, so it is possible that a simple cut down job and a little finishing of the blade would be sufficient to go straight to parkerizing and not be resharpened afterwards. If that happens to be true, then it would be almost impossible to tell if a cut down M1 was re-re-parkerized, as it were, or not. I do not have enough examples to be sure, but it seems reasonable. If if were pressed, I would say that your bayonet was not resharpened by someone other than the factory. Just an opinion subject to review. Oh Yeah, I think you have a very nice bayonet. Thanks for showing it.

Marv