Paul Posted January 9, 2008 Share #1 Posted January 9, 2008 I found this one in a fleamarket here in Sweden, which is extremly strange since you don't even find these in antique shops over here. I don't have the experience to decide wheter this is real or not, so I would appreciate any help I can get from this forum. I am a bit sceptic though. The edges are kind of "sharp", the whole thing seems somewhat uneven, missing parts of the edge. It has some kind of laquer painted on both sides, making it shiny. The best thing is that it cost me less than 2 $, so it wasn't difficult to decide to buy it. Thanks! /Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted January 10, 2008 Share #2 Posted January 10, 2008 Paul, As far as I know there were no hollow back wings made. This appears to be a collectors copy (made as such) and seen on Ebay all the time. A basic rule of thumb on WW2 wings is to have die struck sterling wings with the atachment devices applied by hand vs. machine as these appear to be. There are some excellent websites and two of them are run by fourm menbers Patrick Frost and Paul Conrad. You may also want to search the forum for other poss on wing to help you learn how to tell real from fake. Good Luck John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted January 10, 2008 Share #3 Posted January 10, 2008 Paul - here is an Ebay example - in my opinion a FAKE story with a FAKE wing... The seller was right to point out the clutchbacks are on WW2 wings but did not bother to tell you the type on this wing are post WW2... John Ebay item # 150203579783 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted January 10, 2008 Share #4 Posted January 10, 2008 I agree with John on both counts! On #2, it puts the rest of the sellers items in doubt too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted January 10, 2008 Thank you guys! I had a feeling it was fake. Because of you I know more now. Thanks again! /Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted January 11, 2008 Share #6 Posted January 11, 2008 Your very welcome. It was good you posted them. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted January 11, 2008 Share #7 Posted January 11, 2008 Not to be contrary, but while I do agree with John and Paul (all you guys need are Ringo and George!) that this is likely not a WWII vingate wing, I am not so sure it is an out and out fake. 1) I know that very similar wings are frequently sold at surplus stores that are really not intended to be mistaken for vintage wings. This looks like one of those style wings. They tend to be really thin stampings of some pot metal that you can actually easily bend in your hands. I dont know if you actually were sold these wings as WWII vintage, but they look like the type I see sold in surplus stores. 2) I cant know for sure, but these wings also look abit like a pair or senior pilot wings that I got from a USAF veteran who was a friend of my dads. His had this kind of finish and were marked sterling, but they were thicker in construction than the surplus style wings. He earned his pilot wings late in WWII and flew until the 80's, retiring with a command pilot rating. He kindly gave me some of his wings, including his WWII pilot wings, his senior pilot wings and a pair or two of his command pilot wings. Nothing super rare, but all to the vet. I have no reason to doubt that these were the wings he wore. Still, I think that Paul and John are likely correct. Patrick Your very welcome. It was good you posted them. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted January 11, 2008 Share #8 Posted January 11, 2008 Point taken Patrick - what makes me think they are fake is the lack of crisp details the the single post looks to me not to be attached by hand. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101combatvet Posted January 11, 2008 Share #9 Posted January 11, 2008 In my opinion these are not fake.... just post war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted January 11, 2008 Share #10 Posted January 11, 2008 OK I will concede that they might not be a fake, as in a piece made to deceive. But they are a WWII Amcraft pattern so many seem to be sold as a WWII piece. Also, they are usually made of pot medal ( not always) and are so cheap looking in person, I can't really imagine any serviceman wearing them. I guess you should call them , "have for collectors" pieces. I have had some of the wings Patrick is refering to, and in person, they look MUCH nicer than this type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101combatvet Posted January 11, 2008 Share #11 Posted January 11, 2008 Many guys would not wear their original issued set for fear that they may loose them. Many purchased extra sets.... some rather cheap in fact for everyday use. I never understood the reason for saving a few extra bucks but some guys are really cheap... then splurge on wine, women, and song. I believe I have seen similar cheap aircrew wings.... I usually stay clear of the unmarked examples. There are also examples that were made for kids in the 50's and 60's, I don't recall exactly how these looked and if senior or master variations were made. OK I will concede that they might not be a fake, as in a piece made to deceive. But they are a WWII Amcraft pattern so many seem to be sold as a WWII piece. Also, they are usually made of pot medal ( not always) and are so cheap looking in person, I can't really imagine any serviceman wearing them. I guess you should call them , "have for collectors" pieces. I have had some of the wings Patrick is refering to, and in person, they look MUCH nicer than this type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted January 12, 2008 Share #12 Posted January 12, 2008 How about we replace fake with JUNK... lol If the seller was trying to say these were WW2 wings then fake applies... not sure about the post war part because standard GI issue wings as found in the PX should have been in a fair price range and met the standard set by the government. I doubt that the wing in question would have. Did you have a specific timeframe for the"post war" period these came from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101combatvet Posted January 12, 2008 Share #13 Posted January 12, 2008 Hmmmmmm, okay. I'm going to have a look.... I think I might have a wing that is stamped in this fashion. I couldn't really date these.... but if you held a gun to my head I would say late 50's? If the pins are shorter then usually encountered I might push the date up a bit. I have a few WW2 Meyers jump and glider wings that are stamped hollow backs with straight pins, so the process has been around. If you look at the front of the wing it is not really that crude..... the back... well... yes. How about we replace fake with JUNK... lol If the seller was trying to say these were WW2 wings then fake applies... not sure about the post war part because standard GI issue wings as found in the PX should have been in a fair price range and met the standard set by the government. I doubt that the wing in question would have. Did you have a specific timeframe for the"post war" period these came from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted January 12, 2008 Share #14 Posted January 12, 2008 Hmmmmmm, okay. I'm going to have a look.... I think I might have a wing that is stamped in this fashion. I couldn't really date these.... but if you held a gun to my head I would say late 50's? If the pins are shorter then usually encountered I might push the date up a bit. I have a few WW2 Meyers jump and glider wings that are stamped hollow backs with straight pins, so the process has been around. If you look at the front of the wing it is not really that crude..... the back... well... yes. Ok please post some high res photos if you can... I want to mentioned I have seen some wings that have the appearence of being this hollow back look only to discover that it is the forcer made it appear as such. (much more shallow then the wing in question) Which may be the one you have? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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