What is the USN rate with a rope knot, ex-apprentice?

[Siamundo]

Hello, I was hoping someone might be able to confirm exactly what this Petty Officer sleeve rate is. Is it for wear by an ex-apprentice, or is it something else altogether? It is a little bit smaller than a standard sleeve rate-almost like a woman's size. Thank you very much.

[Lee Ragan]

That is an Apprentice Petty Officer First Class, (pre 1948 version). Worn by recruits while in training who were filling the duities of a termporay P.O. The original reg (March 1918), describes as "Rating Badges For The Use Of Enlisted Men Under Training At Training Stations". (Reference "United States Navy Rating Badges And Marks 1833 to 2008", pages 48 & 49, by John Stacey.) I believe this insignia has also been covered in other threads on this forum before.

Hope this helps.

[sigsaye]

That is an Apprentice Petty Officer First Class, (pre 1948 version). Worn by recruits while in training who were filling the duities of a termporay P.O. The original reg (March 1918), describes as "Rating Badges For The Use Of Enlisted Men Under Training At Training Stations". (Reference "United States Navy Rating Badges And Marks 1833 to 2008", pages 48 & 49, by John Stacey.) I believe this insignia has also been covered in other threads on this forum before.

Hope this helps.

This is correct. Within a Navy Recruit Company there are various positions of responsibility assigned to Recruits. Prior to '85, they were standard things like Platoon Leaders, Squad Leaders, Recruit Chief Petty Officer, Recruit Leading PO, Master-At-Arms and assorted Administrative positions like Yeoman, Gunners Mate, Damage Control PO, Laundry PO and so forth. Each of these men was gicen these to wear to ID them in their positions, CPO through PO3. After '85, the positions were renamed to more "Naval" sounding, like "Watch Section Leader" instead of "Platoon Leader", Work Center Supervisor" vise "Squad Leader". This was to get the recruits used to what they would hear in the fleet.

 

These rating badges were dropped in about '75.

 

Steve Hesson

[Siamundo]

Thank you gentlemen, I apprecite the information.

[Jim Morris]

When I went through boot camp at Great Lakes in 1962, the Recruit CPO was the only one who wore a rating badge. But IIRC, the knot was different. The one shown here has a square knot, while the one worn by the RCPO in my company was a figure eight knot.

[sigsaye]

When I went through boot camp at Great Lakes in 1962, the Recruit CPO was the only one who wore a rating badge. But IIRC, the knot was different. The one shown here has a square knot, while the one worn by the RCPO in my company was a figure eight knot.

When I went through in '73, all POs had them in one rate or another. And, they were worn on the right sleeve. Other RTC wore them on the left. It was apparently up to the RTC as to which arm they were worn on. This also varried as to time frame. WW2 versions came in PO 3 and up. They have been an on again off agin sort of thing. Soon after the change to the suit and tie uniform, they were dropped all together and the RPO wore the PO devices for the ball cap on their left collar pooint. The knot was used either/or. Both were used, just a difference in manufacture. No other significance. Again, these are one of those abscure Navy things that went really off the reservation during their use. They were originally to designate class leaders in Naval schools in 1918, and ended up being a general use item for all entry level temporary POs.

 

Steve Hesson

[WWIIVetDaughter]

My dad was a Second Class Signalman for the Navy during WWII. He has the exact same rating badge as above. He is 93 and cannot remember what it was for or that it was even his (which it was). He says the badge he had was a Signalman badge with two flags and he wore it on his right sleeve.
So my question is, what could this badge with the knot have been for? He finished his training as a second class man and was a second class signalman immediately on the ships. He said he was no longer under training while on the ships. He did not do other skills other than flags, morse code, and reading hoist flags. He was the top of his class.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you.
How do I attach a photo? If I can't, it is identical to the one at the top.
Tracy

[David Minton]

My dad was a Second Class Signalman for the Navy during WWII. He has the exact same rating badge as above. He is 93 and cannot remember what it was for or that it was even his (which it was). He says the badge he had was a Signalman badge with two flags and he wore it on his right sleeve. 

So my question is, what could this badge with the knot have been for? He finished his training as a second class man and was a second class signalman immediately on the ships. He said he was no longer under training while on the ships. He did not do other skills other than flags, morse code, and reading hoist flags. He was the top of his class.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you.

How do I attach a photo? If I can't, it is identical to the one at the top.

Tracy

As noted above, these rates were only worn at boot camp. He would have worn this badge while at boot camp, before he was promoted to Petty Officer.

 

 

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[David Minton]

On 4/16/2012 at 7:37 PM, sigsaye said:

When I went through in '73, all POs had them in one rate or another. And, they were worn on the right sleeve. Other RTC wore them on the left. It was apparently up to the RTC as to which arm they were worn on. This also varied as to time frame. WW2 versions came in PO 3 and up. They have been an on again off again sort of thing. Soon after the change to the suit and tie uniform, they were dropped all together and the RPO wore the PO devices for the ball cap on their left collar point. The knot was used either/or. Both were used, just a difference in manufacture. No other significance. Again, these are one of those obscure Navy things that went really off the reservation during their use. They were originally to designate class leaders in Naval schools in 1918, and ended up being a general use item for all entry level temporary POs.

 

Steve Hesson

Steve,

 

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but do you know when the Navy stopped using Apprentice Petty Officer badges? I know from John Stacey's book they they were introduced in 1918, but he failed to mention when use ceased.

 

You mention "soon after the change to the suit."  If I recall the roll out date from 7/01/1973. I assume recruits wore the suit uniform at RTC, and if so were Apprentice Petty Officer rates ever worn on them during a transition period? Ideally I'm looking for a regulation document, but if you can at least give me a year, I can review sources such as All Hands.

[Justin B.]

18 hours ago, David Minton said:

You mention "soon after the change to the suit."  If I recall the roll out date from 7/01/1973. I assume recruits wore the suit uniform at RTC, and if so were Apprentice Petty Officer rates ever worn on them during a transition period? Ideally I'm looking for a regulation document, but if you can at least give me a year, I can review sources such as All Hands.

 

If you look through the boot camp company photos here:

https://militaryyearbookproject.com/platoon-photos/us-navy-recruit-training-center-rtc-photos

it looks like the jumpers and white hats were out in '73, and somewhere around that time recruit POs began wearing a PO utility cap device (metal pin with eagle and chevrons) on the left collar of the white shirt, and on the left breast of the blue coat.

[sigsaye]

I went to Boot Camp in a January 1973. We were still wearing them sewn to the blue utility shirts (dress uniforms were not worn at that time, graduation only). I still found them in trash cans as I cleaned ships berthing compartments for the next year or so. Maybe deleted by a note in ‘74-‘75?