BRITISH FAIRBAIRN-SYKES COMMANDO STILETTO

[Greg Robinson]

One of the handsomest fighting knives or WW2. Made by Wilkenson Sword of London England sometime in the 1941-1942 time period. This was one of the private purchase pieces sold out of their London showroom in WW2. Most likely sold to some American GI. The version with blued blade and blade etchings is a rare knife.

 

When the US Marine Corps went shopping for a fighting knife for their newly formed Raider units they gave the task to a Marine officer who had spent time in England and who was impressed by their commando units. Not difficult to see that the British F-S stiletto was the inspiration for the Raider stiletto.

[Holloman]

how much did that run ya?

[teltec01]

Two very beautiful looking knives, nice collection,...Gerry

[Greg Robinson]

how much did that run ya?

 

 

I got the F-S about ten years ago and paid too much....seems cheap today. The Raider knife was a 1998 pick up and I got a real fair deal on it....again, cheap by today's standards.

[Greg Robinson]

Two very beautiful looking knives, nice collection,...Gerry

 

Thanks, Gerry. I've sold some nice items in the past several years but there are a few knives and bayonets that are lifetime "keepers". Among them are that 2nd pattern F-S, the Marine Raider, and my Case V42.

[Gregory]

Hello,

 

Excellent topic and Greg's items. Would it be possible to write anything more about the F-S knives in the US service? For example what was the source for these knives for the UK-based US paras? Private purchase or changing between the British paras? If changing -- for what? It is impossible to see at the pics British para equipped with the US M3 trench knife whereas it is not so hard to see the US para equipped with the British F-S knife.

 

Any comments?

 

Best

 

G.

[Greg Robinson]

Hello,

 

Excellent topic and Greg's items. Would it be possible to write anything more about the F-S knives in the US service? For example what was the source for these knives for the UK-based US paras? Private purchase or changing between the British paras? If changing -- for what? It is impossible to see at the pics British para equipped with the US M3 trench knife whereas it is not so hard to see the US para equipped with the British F-S knife.

 

Any comments?

 

Best

 

G.

 

We need a Fairbairn-Sykes expert to join this discussion. I only know the basics re these. It's always been my understanding that most of the F-S knives carried by US servicemen in Europe were private purchase right out of Wilkenson Sword's showroom in London. I doubt too many M3's got into the hands of British paras since they weren't enough available to satisfy the demand from US troops. Not many US troops would have been willing to give up their M3's.

 

Greg

[BC 41]

We need a Fairbairn-Sykes expert to join this discussion. I only know the basics re these. It's always been my understanding that most of the F-S knives carried by US servicemen in Europe were private purchase right out of Wilkenson Sword's showroom in London. I doubt too many M3's got into the hands of British paras since they weren't enough available to satisfy the demand from US troops. Not many US troops would have been willing to give up their M3's.

 

Greg

 

Here some of mine collection.

 

The FS 1 pattern have complet history to his pre owner in SOE. He was a Agent in Norway during war. The German tortured him to dead feb 45.

 

Im a collector of FS daggers & trades or buy. Im from Norway. So if you want to send me a PM your welcome. Always nice with good contact`s over the world

 

Best Reg BC 41

 

 

FS 1 Very rare Dagger. Mine is in like new exellent cond.

 

 

Here some more FS daggers

 

 

 

 

And here a very rare BC 41 knife used by a former SOE agent in Norway during war. orginal sheat.

 

[BC 41]

Sorry for the small pics.

 

Here a better of the FS 1.

 

[Charlie Flick]

BC:

 

You have some very beautiful blades there. A very handsome collection. Thanks for posting the pics.

 

Charlie

[BC 41]

BC:

 

You have some very beautiful blades there. A very handsome collection. Thanks for posting the pics.

 

Charlie

 

Thanks Charlie

I im a advanced collector only of the FS daggers all models & clandestine edged knifes. Knifes used by SOE / OSS & resitance figthers with history to user are good stuff `

I can host up some more pics soon for you folks. ( my own collection)

[unterhund]

Hello to my new friends. I have recently become obsessed with the F/S knife. Unfortunately, the good ones cost a fortune!

 

I do have a question. My research leads me to believe that Fairbairn intended the knife to originally have a scalloped guard--that is, the guard would have a dish cut out of each side, probably for the thumb to rest. What leads me to this idea is the pictures I have seen of prototypes of the knife--post Shanghai, but pre pattern 1--that have this feature.

 

Additionally, the rare "X" knife, apparently issued to graduates of Camp X, also seems to have this type of guard.

 

Has anyone else come across this?

[APO472]

Beautiful knives people!

 

As for 101st AB F-S knives this I do know...I have only seen a handful of ID'd/Blade named examples in 30 years. All but two were in still in the Veteran's possession. Yes, these were purchased at the WS showroom in London and it seems that they were all picked up prior to Normandy (I have not seen a post Normandy replacement 'Trooper with one yet). I do know one 506th man who was part of the joint US/British airborne exchange program and he was given a F-S knife as a parting gift (this one is not named on the blade).

 

 

Hope this helps.

[BC 41]

unterhund .

 

The orginal 1 pattern FS daggers like thats in my post is the early handmade knife. Its called the 1 pattern model 2. The really first have a crossguard 3" and few are made of them.

 

Wilkinson made about 1250 of this 1 pattern mod 2 with crossguard bended on bougt sides.

 

The "X" model is a clandestine FS dagger made by John Paisley. He numbered all the daggers he made with a "I" & JP.

 

Some weeks ago a orginal camp X dagger with JP stamps was sold for over 2500 us $. The dagger have a history too the user during the war.

 

Exellent first model goes for 2000$ and up.

 

What Fairbairn Sykes dagger do you get in your collection Unterhund ? Pics

 

Here a picture of a minty exellent Ringed & Beaded with Brooad arrow 12 stamps & orginal sheat from my collection. Bad picture, but the blade are very minty dark blue finish , & the tip point are 100% :The hilt are also orginal finish ww2. I also have the complete history too the user of the knife .

 

[

[unterhund]

BC 41--I appreciate your response, and I admire your collection!

 

At present, the only F/S knife I have is 1976 and NATO marked. I have modified it for a grip that allows the index finger to wrap around the guard, with the thumb laying across the guard, and over the index finger. This is a very secure grip. I have been led by my recent research to believe that this is the grip that Fairbairn preferred.

 

The scalloped guard is only found (excepting field modifications) on the prototypes of the first pattern--as seen in William Windrum's chapter called "Evolution of the F-S Knife" in the great book, "Military Knives--a Reference Book." this is a fantastic book that many here must be aware of. The first photos in the chapter illustrate a very early F/S knife, pre-first pattern, that has a slightly different shaped ricasso from the first pattern, and a straight guard that has the scallops, or scoops, cut out of either side of the guard.

 

This knife is also pictured here:

http://gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/fs/fs_knife_p1.htm

and described as a hand made knife made out of a 1903 bayonet.

 

Who made this knife, I don't know, but I speculate that this is the purest embodiment of Fairbairn's design.

 

As far as the "X Knife," my knowledge is limited to the information found on this website:

http://www.nzknives.co.nz/xdagger.htm

 

This fellow makes what is reputed to be the best repros around of the variations of the F/S knife. For a price, as you see.

 

His "X Knife" has the same scalloped guard, and the ricasso is shaped very much like the prototype mentioned above. Supposedly, Fairbairn was disappointed by the changes apparent in the second and third pattern knives, and when it came time to design a new knife for his pupils at Camp X in Ontario, he went back to the design of that prototype above.

 

There is also a third pattern knife pictured on Snyder's Treasures that has a field mod, not to the guard, but to the blade sides just forward of the guard--where the ricasso is located on the first pattern--that appear to be there to accomodate just such a grip. This is the knife pictured in my attachment above.

 

I have no proof for my theory, but the grip works quite well in either hand. I so far have found no other references to an "X Knife." Fairbairn was indeed an instructor at Camp X, and graduates have gone on record recalling his knife instruction.

 

I would appreciate any comments.

 

Additionally, can anyone confirm what I've heard that the second and third pattern knives with a small triangular wedge on the center of the blade, just forward of the guard, indicates a hand-ground knife that is more preferrable. This can be seen on the modified knife in my attachment.

 

I also would like to hear from anyone about any other repros of the first pattern F/S.

 

Thanks again.

[BC 41]

BC 41--I appreciate your response, and I admire your collection!

 

At present, the only F/S knife I have is 1976 and NATO marked. I have modified it for a grip that allows the index finger to wrap around the guard, with the thumb laying across the guard, and over the index finger. This is a very secure grip. I have been led by my recent research to believe that this is the grip that Fairbairn preferred.

 

The scalloped guard is only found (excepting field modifications) on the prototypes of the first pattern--as seen in William Windrum's chapter called "Evolution of the F-S Knife" in the great book, "Military Knives--a Reference Book." this is a fantastic book that many here must be aware of. The first photos in the chapter illustrate a very early F/S knife, pre-first pattern, that has a slightly different shaped ricasso from the first pattern, and a straight guard that has the scallops, or scoops, cut out of either side of the guard.

 

This knife is also pictured here:

http://gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/fs/fs_knife_p1.htm

and described as a hand made knife made out of a 1903 bayonet.

 

Who made this knife, I don't know, but I speculate that this is the purest embodiment of Fairbairn's design.

 

As far as the "X Knife," my knowledge is limited to the information found on this website:

http://www.nzknives.co.nz/xdagger.htm

 

This fellow makes what is reputed to be the best repros around of the variations of the F/S knife. For a price, as you see.

 

His "X Knife" has the same scalloped guard, and the ricasso is shaped very much like the prototype mentioned above. Supposedly, Fairbairn was disappointed by the changes apparent in the second and third pattern knives, and when it came time to design a new knife for his pupils at Camp X in Ontario, he went back to the design of that prototype above.

 

There is also a third pattern knife pictured on Snyder's Treasures that has a field mod, not to the guard, but to the blade sides just forward of the guard--where the ricasso is located on the first pattern--that appear to be there to accomodate just such a grip. This is the knife pictured in my attachment above.

 

I have no proof for my theory, but the grip works quite well in either hand. I so far have found no other references to an "X Knife." Fairbairn was indeed an instructor at Camp X, and graduates have gone on record recalling his knife instruction.

 

I would appreciate any comments.

 

Additionally, can anyone confirm what I've heard that the second and third pattern knives with a small triangular wedge on the center of the blade, just forward of the guard, indicates a hand-ground knife that is more preferrable. This can be seen on the modified knife in my attachment.

 

I also would like to hear from anyone about any other repros of the first pattern F/S.

 

Thanks again.

 

Here one pics of a very early FS dagger with numbers on the hilt. This one was sold on E bay in January for 2850 US $ . I bid on it but stopped .....later i anger i not bid more and won this auction.

 

Very scarce dagger. Early produktion and made of probably Wilkinson 1903 blade.

 

In the book The earliest commando dagger by Windrum he write about this type of knifes.

 

[Guest zephyr4]

Hi B41, I have a couple of FS knives and wondered if you could tell me which pattern one of them is. The knife is in pretty rough shape the blade is only 5 1/2 1nches in length(probably been shortend) but the blade seems very thick compaird to other FS knives I have seen there are no visible markings.

Sorry about the picture quality I have no camera at the moment.

[BC 41]

zephyr4

 

The FS too the left is a Model 2 Fairbairn Sykes. The thick blade are drop hand forged .Some blade are thicker. The blade are not so good condition i see. This is a model 2 variant . The blade is shortened down.

 

..next are a Beads & Ribbed- so called bacause the grip disign features concentric rings interspaced with a beaded ring. usually thes B&R are marked with > and a number 12 etc ,but many are unmarked as well.

 

The B&R dagger you have are also a Mod 2 pattern type knife.

 

My B&R have marking : Brooad arrow > and 12.

[Guest zephyr4]

Thanks for the info BC 41, I thought it was a second pattern but I was not sure because the the flattend wedge on the blade was a lot larger than some others I have seen.

 

Thanks again z4

[Gregory]

We need a Fairbairn-Sykes expert to join this discussion. I only know the basics re these. It's always been my understanding that most of the F-S knives carried by US servicemen in Europe were private purchase right out of Wilkenson Sword's showroom in London. I doubt too many M3's got into the hands of British paras since they weren't enough available to satisfy the demand from US troops. Not many US troops would have been willing to give up their M3's.

Hi Greg

 

I found an interesting memoir of famous airborne general Lt. Gen. William P. Yarborough:

 

"We got the Fairbairn knife from the British. In World War II all paratroopers carried the Fairbairn knife until we began to arrive in on the scene in too large numbers as to be able to procure them."

 

Source:

Meese J. R., Houser H. P., Conversations between Lieutenant General William P. Yarborough and Colonel John R. Meese, Lieutenant Colonel Houston P. Houser, US Army War College, Carlisle 1975.

[Greg Robinson]

Hi Greg

 

I found an interesting memoir of famous airborne general Lt. Gen. William P. Yarborough:

 

"We got the Fairbairn knife from the British. In World War II all paratroopers carried the Fairbairn knife until we began to arrive in on the scene in too large numbers as to be able to procure them."

 

Source:

Meese J. R., Houser H. P., Conversations between Lieutenant General William P. Yarborough and Colonel John R. Meese, Lieutenant Colonel Houston P. Houser, US Army War College, Carlisle 1975.

 

Yep...this is also my understanding. I assume it was mostly American officers who purchased them since they could better afford them. But once the M3 trench knife began arriving in the field in good quantites I think all US forces started carrying it.

 

Greg

[unterhund]

 

This is a photo that I'm sure many here have seen already, taken by noted photographer and Army Ranger, Phil Stern.

 

Note the F/S knife on the leg of the G.I. on the right. Also worth noting is the rifle held by the man on the left. It's a M1903, and it looks like it has a grenade launcher attached.

 

The picture was taken in North Africa, shortly after Operation Torch. I believe this was well before the M3 knife was an item of issue. During this period, there are many cases of U.S. soldiers carrying F/S knives and M1918 "Trench" knives. They are usually some type of "elite" soldier, e.g. Rangers or Paratroopers.

[gunbarrel]

I picked up this knife and sheath a little while back for $35. The knife appears to be a run of the mill third pattern. However, the sheath is handmade, but very well done.

[gunbarrel]

Tought you'd like to see this National Archives photo.

[gunbarrel]

Another one.