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The Myth of the Deadly M1 Garand Ping

Started by gunbarrel , Mar 24 2012 08:06 PM

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#1 gunbarrel

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:06 PM

This should probably put that to rest, but it will not. Legends, particularly when passed down from generation to generation, won't die. It's like the guy that swears up and down that his Father, or Grandfather, carried this particular M1 Carbine on D-Day. No matter that the carbine was made by Universal Firearms of Hialeah, FL in the 1960's...

M1_Garand_Ping___1.jpg

#2 gunbarrel

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:06 PM

M1_Garand_Ping___2.jpg

#3 gunbarrel

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:07 PM

M1_Garand_Ping___3.jpg

#4 SFMike

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:56 PM

Anybody who has ever bothered to be in a firefight would know how silly it is to think of hearing such a noise.
Even in the slight chance it was, as mentioned, what was the next guy doing?

I have talked to a couple Marines who mentioned actually hearing the rattle of the dustcovers on Japanese rifles as they were being worked during lulls.

I actually heard two distinctive clicks, loud as hell once that I am sure was an AK being switched from safe to rocknroll.
Itwas in very thick bush and very close.
Unnerving as all getout.

Sounds can be specific in nature and circumstances.
Generalizing combat is futile.

#5 rayg

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 12:25 PM

Even if a ping was heard which seems unlikely, all that would only communicate is that the soldier would be reloading which with an M1 would take about 5 seconds time, Ray

#6 Jack's Son

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

I would hate to bet my life on a "ping". As was pointed out, by the time you would have to reacted to the noise, the rifle was reloaded and ready.

#7 squirrely

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:45 PM

Odds are if you're in a situation where an enemy can hear a 'ping', and you've got no one else to cover you, you've got bigger problems...

#8 Chris_B

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:37 PM

Odds are if you're in a situation where an enemy can hear a 'ping', and you've got no one else to cover you, you've got bigger problems...


:lol: that's a very good point

#9 Garandomatic

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 05:50 PM

Old wives' tale #37 busted. Who'd know better than the Krauts? Glad to finally hear about this.

I m however steamed that I don't have my subscription. NRA cashed my check months ago, and apparently, I'm no longer a member... Gotta make a phone call tomorrow...

#10 45ACP

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:45 AM

Something we forget about is that befor the 70s &80s there was no hearing protection. Believe me after firing a couple of rounds nobody is going to hear that ping. I can hardly hear it with my hearing protection on. WE didn't know any better in those so we shot with out hearing protection.

#11 45ACP

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:17 AM

Back before WWII there were two semi automatic rifles that the government was looking at the M1 Garand and the M1941 Johnson. The Johnson guys claimed that the Garand had a week receiver and that if run over by a 2 1/2 ton truck it would collapse it and put it out of action. Have you seen how beefy the M1 receiver is. I don't believe this would take it out of action. But I do believe it would destory the Johnson's magazine.
Now for the "ping" according to the Johnson guys that was a dead give away that the troop had an empty weapon. I understand that things got nasty in this fight for government contracts.

#12 lewis505

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:19 AM

Even if a ping was heard which seems unlikely, all that would only communicate is that the soldier would be reloading which with an M1 would take about 5 seconds time, Ray

As a young "joe" fresh out of jump school at Bragg in 1987, I asked my first Squad Leader how long it should take to reload the M1911A1 I had been issued.

He replied, "The rest of your Army career..."

And.....roger....

#13 67Rally

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:53 AM

The only ping I ever heard was the varying cycles of our SQS-53...talk about loud! Had we used active pings, the Soviet subs would have an even easier time locating/targeting us. Being on a surface ship with friends who served in subs...I know that regardless of the platform (i.e. anti-submarine warfare), we were all targets to the bubbleheads.

Oh wait...this was about the M1???

Sorry...just a squid's ping perspective. :D

#14 Sabrejet

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:50 AM

Puts me in mind of that scene from "The Longest Day" (apparently based on a true incident?) when the German operates his 98K bolt and the GI paratrooper emerges from cover thinking he's just heard the double-click response of a buddy's cricket! :o

#15 mpguy80/08

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:40 AM

Puts me in mind of that scene from "The Longest Day" (apparently based on a true incident?) when the German operates his 98K bolt and the GI paratrooper emerges from cover thinking he's just heard the double-click response of a buddy's cricket! :o


To be perfectly honest, I've never heard a Mauser that sounded like a cricket... Most well used combat rifles would have been broken in, well lubed etc. and even a brand new weapon wouldn't make the snapping sound that a cricket makes. Another one of those myths methinks...

#16 Wharfmaster

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 08:43 AM

The Ping was not the problem. The Garand "clip" could not be easily or quickly "topped off" between firefights.

Also, you had better keep a few empty Garand clips in your pocket for future use. If you do not have the clips, your Garand becomes a very expensive single shot. As we know, the Garand throws away the clip after the last round. This Garand clip system went away for good reason. The box magazine is far better.


Best regards to all,

The Wharfmaster







In Peace and War. US Merchant Marine.

#17 rayg

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:55 AM

In defense of the ping, I will say that as a GI turns the corner and faces a German who is also rounding the corner. And the GI fires first, but misses and it was his last rd in the M1 and as the empty clip is ejected, I guarantee that the ping noise will be heard by the enemy and would be probably one of the few incidences there would not be enough time to reload.
Other then up close situations like that, the ping noise is nonsense, Ray

Edited by rayg, 03 April 2012 - 11:58 AM.


#18 patches

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 12:48 PM

Puts me in mind of that scene from "The Longest Day" (apparently based on a true incident?) when the German operates his 98K bolt and the GI paratrooper emerges from cover thinking he's just heard the double-click response of a buddy's cricket! :o



And then Sal Mineo takes a slug in the GUT, KIA :(

#19 Johan Willaert

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:20 PM

He not only heard two clicks, but also heard two shots.... Go figure... :huh:

#20 DSchlagan

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 08:13 PM

The Ping was not the problem. The Garand "clip" could not be easily or quickly "topped off" between firefights.


I have seen that "topped off" criticism of the Garand en-bloc clip, as a near-exact-same type of quote.

First of all, I suppose the time-span "between firefights" would be a factor.
Seems like that chain-of-thought also makes out that the reloading of an en-bloc clip, as much more difficult than it actually is.
Also, how often is 'loose ammo' being carried, in field/on person, for such 'topping-off? That's why there are bandoliers available (including for magazined weapons).
And anyone smart enough to keep track of their number of rounds of expending ammo, has the option of popping the clip, and remaining rounds, for future use. I also wonder on just how many thousands of 'last-one-or-two rounds' were fired-off, indiscriminately, to gain a full charge ...especially when ammo re-supply was not an issue, or made necessary for reasons of logistics.


Also, you had better keep a few empty Garand clips in your pocket for future use. If you do not have the clips, your Garand becomes a very expensive single shot. As we know, the Garand throws away the clip after the last round. This Garand clip system went away for good reason. The box magazine is far better.
Best regards to all,

The Wharfmaster
In Peace and War. US Merchant Marine.


Although the detachable-box magazine IS far better; keep in mind, that basically, the M14 would have been the M1 Garand, if the Ordnance Department wouldn't have had the design objection, to begin with.
The en-bloc design also necessitated a lot more complicated parts and machine-work.

While I also understand "that things got nasty in this fight for government contracts" between the M1 Garand and the M1941 Johnson; was even the 'potential thought' considered of tossing these weapons under deuce-and-a-halfs, really part of the field trial abuse testing? ...

Regards,
Don.

#21 Harvs73

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:00 AM

Having owned and fired both the M1 Garand and M41 Johnson I know which one I would have preferred!!!!! The barrel on the Johnson was not my favourite nor was that magazine. I have also owned a Kar98 and it sure didn't sound like a 'cricket' when I cycled the bolt.

The reloading of the M1 could be done quite quickly and only in the very rare occasion would the 'en-bloc' problem become a real problem and by that time the bad guys are WAY too close! Between the sounds of gunfire, explosions, armour running around and the general noise of war I could never really see the 'ping' having a REAL affect on the battlefield in any real form. I dare say that it may have been a factor for one or two incidents, as you can never say it DIDN'T happen, but not in any real way.

#22 artu44

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:08 AM

Having owned and fired both the M1 Garand and M41 Johnson I know which one I would have preferred!!!!! The barrel on the Johnson was not my favourite nor was that magazine. I have also owned a Kar98 and it sure didn't sound like a 'cricket' when I cycled the bolt.

The reloading of the M1 could be done quite quickly and only in the very rare occasion would the 'en-bloc' problem become a real problem and by that time the bad guys are WAY too close! Between the sounds of gunfire, explosions, armour running around and the general noise of war I could never really see the 'ping' having a REAL affect on the battlefield in any real form. I dare say that it may have been a factor for one or two incidents, as you can never say it DIDN'T happen, but not in any real way.

When I first saw that movie I laughed a lot at that stupid scene. Maybe the director found it real cool. The only big "ping" I've ever heard with the M1 was at our range during competitions when the clip hitted the floor tiles.

#23 Chris_B

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:53 PM

Movies is movies. They are made as an art form; the scene in which the rifle sounded like a cricket was intended for dramatic effect, which it achieved. Enthusiasts of anything depicted in films are often so 'close' to the subject that the art of the film is lost in light of what the enthusiasts knows that the film makers exaggerated or changed to produce the desired emotional or visual or audible effect. Just a movie.

#24 artu44

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:45 PM

Movies is movies. They are made as an art form; the scene in which the rifle sounded like a cricket was intended for dramatic effect, which it achieved. Enthusiasts of anything depicted in films are often so 'close' to the subject that the art of the film is lost in light of what the enthusiasts knows that the film makers exaggerated or changed to produce the desired emotional or visual or audible effect. Just a movie.


I can't agree Chris, tthat was NOT simply a "movie!" but also a celebration of one of the biggest WWII event and people watching at it was't old ladies but mainly men often highly interested to the drama. And to them the scene appeared ridicolous.

#25 Chris_B

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 08:04 AM

I'm not sure how you can defend that position Artu; by your own definition, a 'celebration' of the event it may have been certainly, but that doesn't dictate strict adherance to every nauance of the film being completely true factual and documented. As an example, the dialogue is undoubtably not precisely as it really was.

I didn't accuse anyone that doesn't share my standpoint of being an "old lady". You also seem to be indicating that anyone that found the scene ridiculous is a real man; the fact that I don't find it ridiculous therefore leads to a singular conclusion. I'm not going to engage in that sort of discussion with you; this was supposed to be friendly discourse. I apologize, but you're going to have to live with my take on the merits or failures of the scene being as valid an opinion as yours.


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