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3rd Training Bde Patch

Started by patchtrader864 , Mar 17 2012 06:02 PM

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#1 patchtrader864

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:02 PM

I have had this patch for years but just id it this week as the 3rd Training bde Ft Knox 1973 Paul3rdtrainingbde2012.jpg

#2 JCFalkenbergIII

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:40 PM

IN post #13 I saw it was identified in this thread,
http://www.usmilitar...showtopic=72252
Glad you got it identified.

Robert

Edited by JCFalkenbergIII, 17 March 2012 - 06:43 PM.


#3 patches

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:51 PM

Now the question, where or on what, and when, were these patches worn ? this one here on this topic, and the 4th Tng Bde on the sister topic ?

#4 hardstripe

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:46 AM

My guess is the patches for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th training brigades were local made near Fort Knox. There were a lot of tailor shops and surplus stores in the area at that time.

Could they be VOLAR ERA pocket patches?

Now for the challenge!!

Who has the patch of the 5th Training Brigade

#5 Steverino

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:29 AM

My guess is the patches for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th training brigades were local made near Fort Knox. There were a lot of tailor shops and surplus stores in the area at that time.

Could they be VOLAR ERA pocket patches?

Now for the challenge!!

Who has the patch of the 5th Training Brigade

Someone should post photos of the 1st and 2nd Training Bdes as well.

Patch Johnson

#6 patches

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:13 AM

My guess is the patches for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th training brigades were local made near Fort Knox. There were a lot of tailor shops and surplus stores in the area at that time.

Could they be VOLAR ERA pocket patches?

Now for the challenge!!

Who has the patch of the 5th Training Brigade


Please define VOLAR ERA ?

#7 hardstripe

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:43 AM

VOLAR stands for Volunteer Army. This is what the army became after the draft ended. It also was reference to aprogram to become a "nicer" Army. Permanent Party soldiers who lived inthe unit barracks did so in a more relaxed atmosphere. They still used the standard steel bunks and wall lockers but the dress-right-dress arrangement of barracks bays was eliminated. Soldiers could rearrange the furniture to a degree and the use of portable divider walls was employed to create a "private" room. I experienced this in my first duty station in 1973, 4th Finance Company and later USA Garrison Fort Carson. I think the troops were also given leeway on what kind of bedspreads to use insted of the standard army green blankets. I think this also led to the proliferation of Pocket Patches in the 4th ID. I was issued a "Dollar Dealer" pocket patch with the instructions to never wear it on my uniform. I still have it today.

#8 hardstripe

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:46 AM

Just found a reference on Amazon to the 1st Training Brigade at Ft. Polk Lousiana. The reference was a Basic Training Souveneir book.

Were there similar training brigades at Forts Leonard Wood, Dix, Ord, Lewis and other places where Basic Training took place?

#9 patches

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:53 PM

I dont think I ever heard the term in my day 1979-80 to very late 1982, I did here POST- VIETNAM alot though. So on these patches I might be inclinded to believe that they are PX novelty patches, because as we know, after 1968-1969 the full color patches were on their way out on Fatique items with very few units having the full color shoulder patch, (1st Infantry Div, 5th Infantry Div, 82nd Airborne Division, and the 101) no less full color pocket patches. By 1973 NO full color insignias would be seen, only subdued.

#10 hardstripe

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 04:38 PM

Maybe it was a Fort Carson thing. Although just outside Colorado Springs and on the toes of the rockies, morale in some 4th ID units was very low. (Lots of AWOLs). This was also a period when the last draftees were finishing up their two years. I think the project was designed to combat the degradation of the Army at the end of the Vietnam War.

Please don't read this as a damnation of the late Vietnam era and post Vietnam era soldiers. That opens a whole nother can of worms and lots of discussion.

Anyway, I remember the term from that era. I don't remember hearing it during my second enlistment in Alaska and Fort Rilery though (1977-1983) so you could be right.

A little research on Google reveals the VOLAR Experiment was conducted on Permanent Party Soldiers at Forts Carson, Bragg, Ord and Benning.

here is a link to the study report: http://www.eric.ed.g...;accno=ED068742

Look at the INtroduction on page 20 of the report.

#11 seanmc1114

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:20 AM

Just found a reference on Amazon to the 1st Training Brigade at Ft. Polk Lousiana. The reference was a Basic Training Souveneir book.

Were there similar training brigades at Forts Leonard Wood, Dix, Ord, Lewis and other places where Basic Training took place?

There were numbered training brigades for both basic and advanced individual training units during the Vietnam War but I have never seen a definitive list of all of them. I know at Fort Polk the 3rd and 5th Training Brigades were AIT units while the 2nd was Basic and you made reference to the 1st as a Basic unit also. Some of the training centers had the same numbered brigades as others so I'm pretty sure they were not tactical units with their own lineages.

For example, a quick search of "army yearbook" on e-Bay came up with these results among others. 1969 - 1st Brigade at Fort Campbell, KY (Basic I believe); 1968 - 1st and 2nd Brigades at Fort Leonard Wood, MO; 1967 - 3rd Brigade at Fort Bliss, TX; 1966 - Third Training Brigade at Fort Knox, KY. Anyway, you get the picture.

In every case I have seen, the cadre of the training units during the 60's wore the shoulder sleeve insignia of the Army whose area the training post was located in. For example, DI's at Fort Dix wore the SSI of the First Army; Fort Jackson and Fort Benning - Third Army; Fort Polk - Fourth Army; Fort Ord - Sixth Army. I believe Fort Knox was an exception and they wore the Armor triangle with no number in the apex and tabs underneath with either "The Armor School" or "USATC Armor".

#12 seanmc1114

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:21 AM

Just found a reference on Amazon to the 1st Training Brigade at Ft. Polk Lousiana. The reference was a Basic Training Souveneir book.

Were there similar training brigades at Forts Leonard Wood, Dix, Ord, Lewis and other places where Basic Training took place?

There were numbered training brigades for both basic and advanced individual training units during the Vietnam War but I have never seen a definitive list of all of them. I know at Fort Polk the 3rd and 5th Training Brigades were AIT units while the 2nd was Basic and you made reference to the 1st as a Basic unit also. Some of the training centers had the same numbered brigades as others so I'm pretty sure they were not tactical units with their own lineages.

For example, a quick search of "army yearbook" on e-Bay came up with these results among others. 1969 - 1st Brigade at Fort Campbell, KY (Basic I believe); 1968 - 1st and 2nd Brigades at Fort Leonard Wood, MO; 1967 - 3rd Brigade at Fort Bliss, TX; 1966 - Third Training Brigade at Fort Knox, KY. Anyway, you get the picture.

In every case I have seen, the cadre of the training units during the 60's wore the shoulder sleeve insignia of the Army whose area the training post was located in. For example, DI's at Fort Dix wore the SSI of the First Army; Fort Jackson and Fort Benning - Third Army; Fort Polk - Fourth Army; Fort Ord - Sixth Army. I believe Fort Knox was an exception and they wore the Armor triangle with no number in the apex and tabs underneath with either "The Armor School" or "USATC Armor".

I think this numbering system carried over through most of the 70's.

Edited by seanmc1114, 19 March 2012 - 05:21 AM.



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