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A-3 / T-5 Chest Parachute Pack

Started by garison44 , Dec 22 2007 08:50 AM

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#1 garison44

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 08:50 AM

Hi,

I'm looking for original A-3 or T-5 Chest Parachute Pack.
I'm going to manufacture replicas I need a 100% correct example.
The pack can be used but complete.
I'm not looking for a canopy.
If someone has any pack for sale or know someone who may have please let me know.

Thanks.

Edited by garison44, 22 December 2007 - 08:51 AM.


#2 baker502

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 11:43 AM

Why don't you just buy one from Bob at VIntage Parachutes, it would most likely be more cost effective for you thank making one from scratch. And with the Euro dollar exchange you will be getting a bit of a deal onit. Paul

#3 garison44

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 12:06 PM

I bought T-5 Parachute Assembly from Vintage Parachutes.
The Chest Pack has some details I don't like so I want to make a pack by myself.
Making a copy won't be a problem for me because I have experience in working with heavy leather, canvas and webbing. Materials are not a big problem too. I also have special sewing machines ( Singer Class 7 ) for heavy leather/canvas work.

I'm asking for original A-3 or T-5 Chest Pack. The pack must be correct for Normandy Period ( one carrying handle ) Maybe someone has one for sale?

That's what I'm looking for:

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Edited by garison44, 22 December 2007 - 12:23 PM.


#4 garison44

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 12:42 PM

One more photo:

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#5 ww2vault

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Posted 22 December 2007 - 07:07 PM

Hi,

If you plan on making reproductions of these packs and selling them please be sure to mark on them somewhere, "Reproduction" so it won't get confused with being a original item. Thanks! http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

- Jeff

#6 garison44

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 12:35 AM

Of course I would describe it as a reproduction.

#7 Gregory

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 03:33 AM

Hi all,

Both me and garrison44 are from one country. What colleague garrison44 makes in his life and hobby I am describing as a military journalist and publisher. I would risk an opinion he comes from one of the best WWII-dedicated 101st Abn living history association in Europe. That is why I would not be surprised by top quality of his replica of the parachute you are discussing about. But if I may suggest do not look please at him and his group of history lovers as Mr Easy Green case study. This group is not a supplier for world eBay branches the US WWII militaria repros under the slogans of "genuine", "original", "WWII-era", "vet direct purchase", "a hundred percent original, full satisfaction" and other unfair wordings. If they manufacture something from time to time it is for their LHA's needs only as far as I know and observe this group. They represent the highest standards and reenactment ethics that is why the market of US WWII militaria can sleep well.

What is more I am afraid that no ideal repro of the parachute you are discussing about and maybe no need to stamp it every side "Reproduction", "Reproduction", "Reproduction" because the people have their own mind. We have to remember that we do have Aviation Law. What garrison44 wants to do is not flyable certified parachute for jumping but a kind of "1:1 modelling" and I am not sure if his repro will be containing canopy or other soft material? Knowing the Polish Aviation Law and Urząd Lotnictwa Cywilnego (a counterpart of the US FAA) garrison44 would be ready to manufacture certified T-5 maybe at the end of his life.

WWII-era parachute is not M1 helmet very easy for artificial ageing and no better proof for it that garrison44 is not satisfied with the Vintage Parachutes product. I am not surprised because it is not so easy to replicate 1940s era elements at least made of cotton and rubber for instance. I am also a fan of military parachuting so I may tell something. Since the end of WWII my family stored big box of the elements of the US WWII-era parachutes -- mainly the covers, cotton cords and two-hook rubber cords for cover opening in the air. I do not have it now but for more than 40 years I used those two-hook rubber cords for various purposes. I used them as long as it was possible -- all those rubber elements were not serviceable very long due to natural degradation and loss of flexibility and elasticity. Very quickly the only one element of those cords were only their cotton coats.

Regards

Greg

Edited by Gregory, 23 December 2007 - 03:38 AM.


#8 garison44

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 04:36 AM

Hi Greg, thanks for support.
I agree with Greg, that manufacturing the T5 Parachute Assembly elements will serve for my group's display purposes only. I'm not going to sell it anywhere at this moment.

#9 Jeeper704

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 06:06 AM

It is the "at this moment" that raises my eyebrows.
Who is to say that these items don't end up as being sold as originals somewhere along the line?
Is it so bad to mark them with "reproduction" on the inside or so?

Militaria collecting is already a big quagmire, so no need to make it even more difficult by adding really well made reproductions ..... for whatever purpose they were meant to be originally.

Just my 2 cents here.

Erwin

#10 garison44

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 07:09 AM

I agree with You. There is no problem for me to mark items as reproductions. I can make a stamp and print it inside to prevent from selling as an original.

#11 ww2vault

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 07:32 AM

Sorry I did not make myself as clear as I would have liked in my first post. What I meant was any item made to look like and original should have reproduction stamped on it but I didn't mean in plain view, I meant hidden away some where inside that item so you would have to look for it, but still have it stamped.

I was not trying to say you were wrong in making these items as reproductions, lord knows I could not afford a original pack right now. I was just wanting to help out future collectors who would buy it thinking it was original.

- Jeff

#12 Jeeper704

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 07:51 AM

I agree with You. There is no problem for me to mark items as reproductions. I can make a stamp and print it inside to prevent from selling as an original.


http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

Erwin

#13 Gregory

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 08:45 AM

I also have special sewing machines (Singer Class 7) for heavy leather/canvas work.

Wow! Singer Forever! http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/twothumbup.gif

I am a grandson of well-known Polish pre- and post-WWII tailor who wrote the handbook of heavy tailoring and who owned his tailoring schools before WWII. I still have my grandfather's pedal-powered 1920s era Singer Treadle Sewing Machine. I do not know what model is it but its serial number is Y5876244. Last month I bought small military WWII era item on eBay from very nice American lady who collects old Singer's machines and trades their spare parts.

Regards :rolleyes:

Gregory


Merry Christmas to all! http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/bye1.gif

Edited by Gregory, 23 December 2007 - 09:00 AM.


#14 garison44

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 01:07 PM

I have already found a T-5 Chest Pack.
Looks great.

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#15 Flightmedic

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 01:21 PM

There is a need for the repros in this world as long as people can distinguish it from the real thing, do what you must...please make it obvious for all collectors though. Coming to a collectors forum and saying your making repos is a little dangerous in my mind however. We are passionate about or collections and the integrity of collecting. I know what you are saying and admire your loyalty to the collectors however lets not see them on e-bay in the next couple of years as authentic pieces.

Edited by Flightmedic, 13 January 2008 - 01:22 PM.


#16 garison44

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 02:27 PM

I'm never going to sell any repros as originals. I'm a collector too and I know what You mean.
I added this topic to find a T-5 Chest Pack for sale.
I'm going to make repros for my fellow reenactors only. I'm sure that my product will have many components different than original WW2 and I'll also mark my products as reproductions ( ink stamp inside the pack ).

#17 Flightmedic

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 02:29 PM

Thank you.... :D http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/twothumbup.gif

#18 piperl4

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 02:47 PM

Hi,

I'm looking for original A-3 or T-5 Chest Parachute Pack.
I'm going to manufacture replicas I need a 100% correct example.
The pack can be used but complete.
I'm not looking for a canopy.
If someone has any pack for sale or know someone who may have please let me know.

Thanks.

Maybe I can help I have a number of original T5's laying around that I could take pictures of. If you are going to make reproductions the labor is very intense as I have done them for myself and some friends but to make money at it is a differant story. Bob gets 249.00 for a very nice T5 but even Bob who I consider to be a very wonderful and gracious man, Just saying that in case someone wanted to bash Bob, as he has helped me out a number of times. I have what I would consider to say a very nice and extensive collection of WW II parachutes. There are a couple of things that most people that attempt to make them get wrong. The biggest is the rip cord. The WW II T5 real deal has a wider base rip cord than the T7 on up. I get the good ones from Hayes Otoupalik for a very reasonable price. He has listed various WW II trays but in reality he does not have any and I swear he list them just to tantalize me. He also sells the bungees for the tray a set of 6 is less than 20 bucks which is a heck of a bargin, considering I have seen guys pay 50 bucks on Ebay for the same thing. I have bought enough of them to last me till I die now so I don't mind sharing the finds with others. The other item is the Lobster Claws. I have seen guys take T7's and cut the wings off and try to pass them off as T5 Lobster claws. Having so many parachuts the one thing that I have and never will change my mind on is I do not have a single parachute in my collection that goes from the T4 harness to the latest versions of the T10's and MERPS, that does not have the correct dated canopy and completly hooked up as if you were going to jump with it. I am not a fan of foam but understand a lot of people cannot afford a real silk canopy or trying to find a twill canopy. But since 1974 after returning from 2 tours in viet nam, I fell in love with collection Parachutes because no one else did and they were dirt cheap so could have a lot of fun on a reasonable budger. Something that has drasticly changed. Anyway back to making your own or making one to sell is an enormous task to say the least. I apploud your ambition and only wish I had the same. So finding the correct hardware is becomming more and more a problem and makes the 249.95 look better at each step. Just doing the binding around the edges will drive a man crazy. I would hazard to say you must have extensive sewing talent or you would not even be thinking of undertaking this. But I can scrounge around and see what pictures I can take and try to get them posted. Please be patient as I have ALS and about 5 other diseases from that stupid AO exposure. How much progress have you made so far in finding your supplies as I also have accumulated some supplies. If you also want to make a harness I have about 400ft of the correct webing with the black stripe. I have never sold any of this stuff because I had a lot of plans but now with the medical issues it becomes a mute point and so I do not mind sharing what I can with others. Today people are heavier and I even have original T4 harness center extensions that twist lock. They are original not reproductions and don't think you will see them on every street corner. So I will read your post a couple times a week to see what progress you are making and if I can get some decent pictures will send them to you. On the harness material the one guy sells it for 7.00 a foot and I think I can do it for 3.00. Please pardon my unorganized writing but difficulties in seeing and in typing hinder me.
Regards
Dave Henderson
www.heguns.com

#19 piperl4

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 02:55 PM

There is a need for the repros in this world as long as people can distinguish it from the real thing, do what you must...please make it obvious for all collectors though. Coming to a collectors forum and saying your making repos is a little dangerous in my mind however. We are passionate about or collections and the integrity of collecting. I know what you are saying and admire your loyalty to the collectors however lets not see them on e-bay in the next couple of years as authentic pieces.

Flightmedic, First Welcome Home, You are so right on that. A lot of us cannot afford 1000+ for original parachutes or just the darn trays so there is a market and needs to be one for good reproductions. Bob sells a nice one with foam for 249.95 and I think that is a fair price considering the work the man puts in and his quality is as good as it gets. No one is perfect. I have gotten a number of items from him and he stamps his QC stamp on everything and if you know his stamp then you know its a reproduction. Here is a good one. I have maybe 6 chest packs that have all original hardware, original silk dated canopy, original ID tag the big one sewn onto the tray, original WW II ripcord, and the outer shell I had Bob replace as it was pretty well shot. The top flap is also original some with the red canvas some with the yellow canvas. So how would you clasify those. I have no intention of selling them but courious of how I would or how will my wife advertise them when that time comes.
Regards
Dave
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#20 piperl4

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 12:26 PM

Why anyone would even want to try to make a reproduction T5 is beyond me. There are about 5 people out there makeing them now and none of them is making a killing. I have baught many of them just to see the quality that they are producing. I have the one that has been on Ebay forever and I intend to leave it their forever. While I will make no negative remarks about it take a look at it 170713441349 is the number on Ebay. Then I have one from Vintage Parachutes 170720939774 that has a complete WW II silk canopy all original hardware and a originals frame I supplied the canvas work is done by him. So I described it as 60 40 original vs reproduction but it did take a complete canopy and the lines are hooked up by the tech manual and packed in accordance with the tech manual. I will refrain from even offering opinions on them as anyone that can see can determine that for themselves. I know what it takes to tool up to reproduce something like this and I will tell you it is not as simple as it looks and finding enough original hardware to be able to sustain a business on is almost impossible. That is why no matter how bad a tray is when I come across a T5 or any other WW II rigs I scavange every single part I can. I have my own plating business so I can clean and re cad plate with type 1 Cad any of the old parts. But even with a good sewing machine it takes years of talent to learn the many differant stitches that are used in the trays. There is no less than 5 completly differant stitches done on them. On the one from france he used a 3/16 spacing which when I measure the original T5 is 1/64 to 1/32 spacing. I have thought many times about doing various items as I also have access to a lot of industrial equipment but I know that I would never recover the first cent. If I was into reinacting which I am not as after 2 tours in the real deal I do not want to act it out again, I would look at all that are out there and pick one and buy it. I know who the cheapest one is and my opinion is they make the best one. Again I will keep my opinion to myself, as my point is just in the investment of time and money you could go out and find and buy a real T5. Even if you spent 2000.00 to buy a ragged one you will spend more than that in Time and money. Now if you do decide to do it and market them I would love to buy one just to have it in my collection of all those who make the differant ones. I can tell you right off the binding and the pleats are the killer. Learning to do them right and tie off the ends correctly so that when you pack it the whole thing does not spring apart is a real art. Good luck and seriouly I would buy one just to have it.
Dave


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