US Army Victory Medal WWI

[Johnnymac]

Good Morning I hope you all will enjoy my posting. These groups and each medal in these groups are different from each other and represent what each unit would have received. That is not to say that each person assigned to these units received all the clasps awarded his unit. There are more which I will post at a later day. This is why it is interesting to collect US Victory medals.

Regards, Jim M.

 

Yes these are part of my medals

 

 

[Johnnymac]

Regards, Jim M.

 

Yes these are part of my medals.

 

 

[bobgee]

VERY Nice collection & display. Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup: Bobgee

[Sabrejet]

Museum quality methodical collecting. Outstanding! :thumbsup:

[Jack's Son]

Very nice reference material and pictures at a glance. This is a helpful thread!

[patches]

Very nice reference material and pictures at a glance. This is a helpful thread!

 

Very good, it most have been enjoyable doing the research, as only one who enjoys reading, researching up on a subject, would under take a project like this.

[BigJohn#3RD]

Jim,

Outstanding reference for the WWI collectors, thanks for sharing.

John

[Johnnymac]

Jim,

Outstanding reference for the WWI collectors, thanks for sharing.

John

 

Thank you all, for taken the time to enjoy just part of my collection which I posted here.

[patches]

Thank you all, for taken the time to enjoy just part of my collection which I posted here.

 

I'm gathering that both medals and bars are original, so was it very hard to collect the best looking examples ? as well as the bars, where the bars the hardest ones to find ? Will your next project be Navy ?

[1stDivVet]

Very nice display and reference! I love the WW1 Inter-Allied Victory Medal. I have several US and a few of the allied nations. The US ones with bars are my favorites tho! Looking forward to seeing more!

 

Fins...

[Johnnymac]

I'm gathering that both medals and bars are original, so was it very hard to collect the best looking examples ? as well as the bars, where the bars the hardest ones to find ? Will your next project be Navy ?

 

All are original, I have been collecting Vic's for over 40 years, I have several set of full Navy which I will also post at a later date, along with several very rare ones.

 

Some Collect PH, others DCS, etc. I found Vic's more to my liking then the other type medals. I also have over fifty Vic's from the other countries.

 

Thanks for asking, Jim M.

[scottplen]

If soldier was wounded did he get the Defense sector bar ??

[Johnnymac]

If soldier was wounded did he get the Defense sector bar ??

 

Yes if he was wounded in a battle or a Defensive Sector why wouldn't he?

[trenchbuff]

I really enjoyed seeing your victory medal display. the vic medal is one of my all time favorites and your collection is top notch! Thanks for sharing with us.

[scottplen]

Yes if he was wounded in a battle or a Defensive Sector why wouldn't he?

 

 

Hello

New to victory medals !!

 

So if wounded he would get defense sector . so all wounded in action got this plus what ever other battles he was entitled too .

 

thanks :think:

[patches]

All are original, I have been collecting Vic's for over 40 years, I have several set of full Navy which I will also post at a later date, along with several very rare ones.

 

Some Collect PH, others DCS, etc. I found Vic's more to my liking then the other type medals. I also have over fifty Vic's from the other countries.

 

Thanks for asking, Jim M.

 

Now thats what I would mind seeing, up close, front and rear's of the Allied Victory Medals, Do you think the boys will let you post them ? as they will be foreign, I would think they may be related at any rate.

[patches]

I really enjoyed seeing your victory medal display. the vic medal is one of my all time favorites and your collection is top notch! Thanks for sharing with us.

 

Its also interesting that unlike other Full sized medals, the World War Victory medal was not assembled uniformly in the length of their ribbons, this leads me to ask, that when these medals where given out was it only the pendant with a long length of ribbon and pin mounting plate, and was assembled by the indivdual who made it long as he needed it by the amount of bars he was going to put on ?

[AustinO]

Right click > save as. Great reference photos, thanks!

[Johnnymac]

Its also interesting that unlike other Full sized medals, the World War Victory medal was not assembled uniformly in the length of their ribbons, this leads me to ask, that when these medals where given out was it only the pendant with a long length of ribbon and pin mounting plate, and was assembled by the indivdual who made it long as he needed it by the amount of bars he was going to put on ?

 

You asked, "was it assembled by the indivdual who made it long as he needed it by the amount of bars he was going to put on"? The answer is no.

 

The Philadelphia Quartermaster Corps, assembled all Victory Medals requiring any and all combinations of battle clasps (from 1 to 14 battle clasps). The PQC would back-check all submitted application against their own Army records for correctness, there-by preventing any unwarned duplication of awarding the same medal to the same person. Some collectors mistakenly believe that the three contracted manufactures issued medals. These contractors would not have the time or personnel to do so, adding to this there was just too much personal information on these records. The Medals without a clasp or with just a Service clasp were issued at the completion of the application for the Victory Medal. They too were all this done under the Army's control.

 

All Naval and Marine Corps personnel attached to the AEF and who were under (Key words) the Army control received their medals in the same manner as their army counterpart, from the PQC.

 

In a report from the Adjutant General Office to the Secretary Of War in 1921, it is stated that the Bureau of Navigation (US Navy) would repay all cost for these medals. The Navy did not issue Army style medals because they could get them from the Army, so why would contact for them?

 

Regards, Jim M.

[Wharfmaster]

Jim:

 

Could a soldier qualify for a battle clasp only and not get the DS clasp?

 

 

Best regards,

 

W

[Johnnymac]

Jim:

 

Could a soldier qualify for a battle clasp only and not get the DS clasp?

Best regards,

 

W

 

W, you ask: Could a soldier qualify for a battle clasp only and not get the DS clasp? No, it would be impossible and there's why:

 

May, 1919 - in the General Orders, 12 battle clasp are named, there is no mention of the Defensive Sector or Cambrai clasps.

 

June,1919 - the General Orders, Defensive Sector or Cambrai clasps are added by Pershing due to pressure from him command. The Secretary of War issued a General Order making it impossible to not receive the Defensive sector battle clasp. By using these words: officers and enlisted men present at "any" defensive sectors would be entitled this battle clasp. Each officer and enlisted man serving in area of corps, divisions, or smaller independent organizations even under French, British, Belgian or Italian commands, between April 6, 1917 and November 11, 1918, will be entitled to the Defensive Sector clasp, irrespective of awards for major operations. Each officer and enlisted man present in a enemy engagement in European Russia since August 1, 1918, or in Siberia since August 15, 1918 will be entitled to a Defensive Sector clasp.

 

As you can see the Defensive Sector battle clasp is in play long before the first Victory Medal was made or issued.

 

March, 1920 - Army awards contract: The Army's Victory Medals "could not" have been issued any earlier then these dates as validated on the boxes of the three manufacturers.

 

March, 1920 - Major General, Harry L. Rogers, Quartermaster General, designated Major C. F. Burkhardt to supervise the production of the Victory Medal.

 

April, 1920 - The Army's application form for the Victory Medal came out. with these instructions, "All personnel who participated in at least one of the (13) major battles will be entitled to the Defensive Sector battle clasp "even" if this clasp had been "omitted" from the application forms initially by the applicant. It goes on to say: "All combinations of the battle clasps were to be placed in sequence of date participation. The first battle engagement at the top and Defensive Sector battle clasp at the bottom of the combination of clasps". Alexander Laslo, in his book, The Interallied Victory Medals of World War I, 1992, 2nd ed, (p.98) touches on these same subjects.

 

April, 1920 - The U.S. Mint sent all dies and hubs to the three contractors.

 

June, 1920 - The Army started issuing Victory Medals.

 

July, 1920 - President W. Wilson received the first made Victory medal from Sec. of War, Baker.

 

In MHO anything other than this is because of collector/dealer intervention.

[67Rally]

What a fantastic thread. I am saving those images of the medals - visual reference tools are quite explanatory!

[Old Marine]

That is an Outstanding collection, it is a pleasure to look over all those medals and clasps. Thanks for taking the time to post the photos. :bravo:

 

Dennis

[patches]

You asked, "was it assembled by the indivdual who made it long as he needed it by the amount of bars he was going to put on"? The answer is no.

 

The Philadelphia Quartermaster Corps, assembled all Victory Medals requiring any and all combinations of battle clasps (from 1 to 14 battle clasps). The PQC would back-check all submitted application against their own Army records for correctness, there-by preventing any unwarned duplication of awarding the same medal to the same person. Some collectors mistakenly believe that the three contracted manufactures issued medals. These contractors would not have the time or personnel to do so, adding to this there was just too much personal information on these records. The Medals without a clasp or with just a Service clasp were issued at the completion of the application for the Victory Medal. They too were all this done under the Army's control.

 

All Naval and Marine Corps personnel attached to the AEF and who were under (Key words) the Army control received their medals in the same manner as their army counterpart, from the PQC.

 

In a report from the Adjutant General Office to the Secretary Of War in 1921, it is stated that the Bureau of Navigation (US Navy) would repay all cost for these medals. The Navy did not issue Army style medals because they could get them from the Army, so why would contact for them?

 

Regards, Jim M.

 

Thank you for your detailed answer.

[Wharfmaster]

W, you ask: Could a soldier qualify for a battle clasp only and not get the DS clasp? No, it would be impossible and there's why:

 

May, 1919 - in the General Orders, 12 battle clasp are named, there is no mention of the Defensive Sector or Cambrai clasps.

 

June,1919 - the General Orders, Defensive Sector or Cambrai clasps are added by Pershing due to pressure from him command. The Secretary of War issued a General Order making it impossible to not receive the Defensive sector battle clasp. By using these words: officers and enlisted men present at "any" defensive sectors would be entitled this battle clasp. Each officer and enlisted man serving in area of corps, divisions, or smaller independent organizations even under French, British, Belgian or Italian commands, between April 6, 1917 and November 11, 1918, will be entitled to the Defensive Sector clasp, irrespective of awards for major operations. Each officer and enlisted man present in a enemy engagement in European Russia since August 1, 1918, or in Siberia since August 15, 1918 will be entitled to a Defensive Sector clasp.

 

As you can see the Defensive Sector battle clasp is in play long before the first Victory Medal was made or issued.

 

March, 1920 - Army awards contract: The Army's Victory Medals "could not" have been issued any earlier then these dates as validated on the boxes of the three manufacturers.

 

March, 1920 - Major General, Harry L. Rogers, Quartermaster General, designated Major C. F. Burkhardt to supervise the production of the Victory Medal.

 

April, 1920 - The Army's application form for the Victory Medal came out. with these instructions, "All personnel who participated in at least one of the (13) major battles will be entitled to the Defensive Sector battle clasp "even" if this clasp had been "omitted" from the application forms initially by the applicant. It goes on to say: "All combinations of the battle clasps were to be placed in sequence of date participation. The first battle engagement at the top and Defensive Sector battle clasp at the bottom of the combination of clasps". Alexander Laslo, in his book, The Interallied Victory Medals of World War I, 1992, 2nd ed, (p.98) touches on these same subjects.

 

April, 1920 - The U.S. Mint sent all dies and hubs to the three contractors.

 

June, 1920 - The Army started issuing Victory Medals.

 

July, 1920 - President W. Wilson received the first made Victory medal from Sec. of War, Baker.

 

In MHO anything other than this is because of collector/dealer intervention.

 

Jim, thanks much.

 

I have a Victory with a single M-A Clasp. I found it in an antique shop a number of years ago. It has the original brooch, ribbon (shortest offical length) and jump ring. Can not see where it was messed with at all. May not be "right" but looks like this is the way it was issued. We will never know for sure.

 

Regards,

 

W