Post your SpanAM through WWI Navy uniforms

[ChrisG43]

I am fairly new to the US side of collecting, I would like to pick up a few early US Navy Uniforms, primarily SpanAM period through WWI. Feel free to post your enlisted and Officers uniforms, I haven't found a lot of references or threads on this subject. Also if anyone has any good websites that show uniforms by all means post them. I'm trying to educate myself the best I can before I buy. Also, how does one distinguish between a WWI jumper and a WWII jumper? THanks, Chris....

[BEAST]

AAMUC's "FOOTLOCKER" ran an excellent series on the differences of USN EM uniforms from the late 1800's through WWII. I look for my copies and see what I can find. I have a few WWI USN EM jumpers that I will post also.

[jjdevi1]

All,

 

Here is an odd duck in my collection. I'm 99% sure that this was worn on duty, given where it came from. When I get a chance, I'll take some other pictures of WW1 and Pre WW1 jumpers/frocks, etc in my collection.

 

John

[jjdevi1]

I might add that I got this off of E-Bay a few years ago. These are the E-Bay pictures. Even though it isn't reg, I doubt if it was faked, given the USMC O/S chevrons on it, and given what I paid for it. Still, an odd duck!

 

John

[QED4]

Is it just the camera angle or dose the jacket have only four buttons? Also is there a label?

[jjdevi1]

Is it just the camera angle or dose the jacket have only four buttons? Also is there a label?

 

Yep, it only has 4 buttons! And, there is a label in it, but the name escapes me right now. I'm at work and don't have the tunic handy, will post it tonight. Just an odd duck.

 

John

[cbuehler]

I wish I could post some early century Navy material, but I dont have any! I have found that any Navy uniforms before ww2, perhaps other than some enlisted jumpers or flat caps on occaision, are exceptionally scarce and down right rare in many instances.

That Chief's coat is fine and rare example and only the second one of its period that I have seen in 10+ years. I have seen far more Marine Corps material from the early 20th century and they were a fraction of the size of the Navy. Where is all this stuff?

 

CB

[jjdevi1]

Rack of mostly Navy tunics, WW1/2.

 

Marr tunic again LTC Littlejohn in the background, and a unidentified (right now) Naval Aviator green tunic made in England. The boards came from Annapolis, the buttons are Guant, the Victory Medal ribbon has a British makers label on back, and I'm pretty sure the wings are Brit made.

 

CB,

 

My guess is my basement! LOL Seriously, I started into the early Navy because nobody was collecting it. Dealers didn't carry it, and I've found it catch as catch can. The next one I'm going to post is a white pre-WW1 jumper. This has the SAW type rate on it, which differs from the 1885 rate quite a bit. These multi-color rates were worn in Asia up through WW1.

 

John

 

Picture coming right up! Gotta take it!

 

SAW/Pre WW1 era jumper. Two more rare ones to follow! The second is a Naval Battery tunic and O/S cap. They manned the big railway guns like the RAR troops. The last is a tan Aviation tunic. The tan tunic came off of e-bay about 6 months ago for $90.00! It's named thanks to black light bringing up the name. Well, I have to get up at 3am to go to work so that's it for tonight!

 

John

 

Sorry for the poor quality images, I had to shrink them!

[KASTAUFFER]

Here is one I have posted before

 

WWI USN jumper with a fairly scarce rate ( Aviation Carpenters Mate 1st Class ) to:

 

Kircher, George,

797 Maple St., Rochester, N. Y.

Entered the service at Buffalo, N. Y., April 2, 1918, at the age of 24 years, in U.S. Navy.

Served, Naval Training Camp, Charleston, S. C., to May 6, 1918;

Receiving Ship, Pensacola, Fla., to Nov. 11, 1918.

Trained, Charleston, S. C. Landsman Carpenter's Mate, Aviation, 121 days;

Carpenter's Mate, 2d Class, Aviation, 41 days.

Discharged, March 4, 1919.

 

 

 

 

[jjdevi1]

The carpenters mates are neat, figure they were building/repairing a lot of the frame and spar work on the aircraft. I have one that I'll have to dig out that became a pilot. Also, have a Chief's frock that is a WW1 Aviation pilot, but my wife won't let me have it until Christmas! LOL Will post after Christmas.

 

John

[sigsaye]

This is a WW 1 jumper. It belonged to a member of the fore runner of the CBs. Note the device on the left fore arm.

 

Steve Hesson

[sigsaye]

To those of you with "forms" or "maniquens" to display your uniforms, where do you get them?

 

Steve Hesson

[jjdevi1]

Steve,

 

With me its catch as catch can. Thrift stores, e-bay, flea markets and the like. I go months without seeing one, then all of a sudden, it seems like they are everywhere! Then again, I travel about 100 days a year with work, so I see a lot of the country too.

 

John

[dpcsdan]

Especially rare distinguishing mark, Steve.

[ChrisG43]

Nice items so far everyone, I especially like the white Navy Jumper (Spanam/pre WWI). How do I differentiate between a WWI Jumper and a WW2 Jumper, tags, style, wool content, etc.? I don't have any written references on Naval Uniforms, so I'm at the mercy of internet sites and great forums such as this. Chris...

[Dave]

Just as an aside, Manion's auction has had a TON of WW1 Navy uniforms for sale recently. Might be a good place to pick some up if you're looking for them...

 

Dave

[Dave]

These officer's uniforms went away right after WW1, so you know if you find one you've pretty much got a WW1 "vintage" uniform. I'm by no means flogging it, but I have this one posted up on ePay at the moment if you're looking at buying one...

[Stinger Gunner USMC]

Here is a pretty basic jumper from WWI era. Buttons seem to be wooden? There are no stripes on the uniform but there are stars on the rear flap.

named to C E Burroughs. I havent done any research on this one yet.

[sigsaye]

Especially rare distinguishing mark, Steve.

Thanks Dan, It actually took a bit to find out what it was. I have also seen pictures of Sailors in 1917 working on aircraft. They are wearing blues, and while they have standard rating badges, they all are wearing a winged propeller (like the Aviation Machinest Mate) on the forearm like this patch. From what I understand that was how Naval Aviation personnel were distinguished from other Sailors.

 

Steve Hesson

[sigsaye]

Here is a pretty basic jumper from WWI era. Buttons seem to be wooden? There are no stripes on the uniform but there are stars on the rear flap.

named to C E Burroughs. I havent done any research on this one yet.

 

What you have here is a jumper that started out as a Dress Blue jumper. It originally had the three stripes of white piping around the cuffs and collar. The 1917 regulations authorized the "piping" to be removed from older dress jumpers to make them "Undress" for working. The 1913 regs directed that in addition to removing the piping, the collars were to be cut down removing the stars also. This was changed in 1917, and at the same time, a ready made undress blue jumper was also introduced. Along with no piping or stars, it had no cuffs. For a short time between 1913 and 1917, there was also a woolen flannel pull over shirt with regular shirt collar and button placket. This was supposed to be the working shirt, but most Sailors did not receive it. It eventually became the Chief Peftty Officers blue work shirt.

 

The wooden cuff buttons are common. The originals were bakelite with an anchor stamed into them. But, you find alot of the work clothing jumpers with wood button as they were cheap and easy to find to replace lost buttons.

 

Being a work uniform, thee things are actually pretty rare. They were worn out and then tossed. They were basically disposeable.

 

Steve Hesson

[sigsaye]

Nice items so far everyone, I especially like the white Navy Jumper (Spanam/pre WWI). How do I differentiate between a WWI Jumper and a WW2 Jumper, tags, style, wool content, etc.? I don't have any written references on Naval Uniforms, so I'm at the mercy of internet sites and great forums such as this. Chris...

Chris, WW 1 Jumpers are pretty much totally different from WW 2. First, they are made of a lighter weight wool flannel. You can actually se the twill in the fabric. WW 2 blues were made of a thicker wool melton. WW 1 blues are a much "bluer" shade than WW 2. More like Civil War Army uniforms. WW 2 blues are the dark "Navy" blue we now today.

 

WW 1 jumpers have a small piece of cotton tape sewn to the front at the "V" of the collar where the necker chief was to be looped through when tied. WW 2 blue jumpers do not have this (WW 2 white jumpers do though).

 

WW 1 jumpers do not have any tags. WW 2 jumpers will have "Naval Clothing Factory" or even "Coast Guard Clothing Factory" tags.

 

Rating badges on the left sleeve of WW 1 jumpers will have the eagle facing to the wearers rear. This changed in 1940, after which all eagles were to fact to the front.

 

That should help. I will try to get a picture of a WW 1 and WW 2 jumper together so you can see the diferances.

 

Steve Hesson

[KASTAUFFER]

Here is a new one I just bought. It is a WWI Officers jacket to a Naval Aviator. Unfortunately the bullion wings have been removed!!! Arghhh!!! . It does have a single overseas chevron.

 

It is named and dated July 1918 in the pocket . I found an officer named S.P. Mahoney who was a Naval Aviator in WWI . It almost looks like S L Maroney.

 

This style of jacket was not used much in WWI and is hard to find. Generally the high collar jacket was worn for line officers, and the high collar aviation green jacket for Naval Aviators. This one is an odd duck for sure. The person I bought it from did not mention that wings had been on it, and I didnt know it until I got it. I doubt the outline of the wing was " faked " .

 

Has anyone else seen one like this?

 

Kurt

 

[KASTAUFFER]

The outline of the bulion wing. It was a 3 inch wing .

 

 

The tailor label in the pocket. The tailor was from MA , and so was SP Mahoney .

 

[cwnorma]

The outline of the bulion wing. It was a 3 inch wing .

 

 

The tailor label in the pocket. The tailor was from MA , and so was SP Mahoney .

 

 

I am certain that the "Contact" book has S. P. Maroney misspelled as I doubt he would misspell his own name!

 

Very nice reefer jacket. These early ones are pretty tough to find. You are correct you almost always see the high collar/mohair braid dress jackets for the WW1 officers.

 

Royal Navy influence caused the USN to adopt the Reefer jacket. It is likely that Maroney was stationed overseas with the Brits perhaps with the Northern Bomb Group.

 

Unfortunately, the patch butchers (they know who they are) got to it first but the good news is it shouldn't be too difficult (but a little pricey) to "restore" that jacket with a proper WW1 era wing.

 

Best of luck

 

Chris

[sigsaye]

ChrisG43 said:

Nice items so far everyone, I especially like the white Navy Jumper (Spanam/pre WWI). How do I differentiate between a WWI Jumper and a WW2 Jumper, tags, style, wool content, etc.? I don't have any written references on Naval Uniforms, so I'm at the mercy of internet sites and great forums such as this. Chris...

 

Chris, I took some photos of a documented WW1 jumper and a Documented WW2 jumper together

 

 

This photo shows the two jumpers INSIDE OUT. Notice the color first off. The WW2 jumper on the left as you look at it. Note the way the collar is put together. The WW2 jumper has an inside pocket the WW1 does not. Note, WW2 jumper has manufacturer tag, WW1 does not.

 

 

This is the underside of the collars. Note the WW1 stars are hand sewn, WW2 machine stitched. (note, I have a mint jumper from the 1930s that is the dark (WW2) blue with hand stitched stars also).

 

 

 

 

 

This is a photo of the front outside of the two jumpers. Again, the WW2 is on the left as you look at them. Not the way the collars appear from the outside. Also note that the WW1 jumpers has the neckerchief loop at the "V" of the collar.

 

 

Another thing to look for is that on rating badges on the left sleeve, the eagle looks to the rear. Prior to 1940 all Navy rating badges had left facing eagles. So, on the left sleeve, they faced aft while on the right sleeve they faced forward. In 1940 this was changed to have all eagles face forward. This is sort of a broad thig, but the color or the uniform should tell you what war it is from.

 

Steve Hesson