rustywings Posted January 4, 2012 Share #1 Posted January 4, 2012 What's your opinion of these listed WWII Luxenberg hallmarked jump wings? They sold on ebay tonight for $641.98. Auction #230722699261. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share #2 Posted January 4, 2012 Luxenberg hallmarked jump wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted January 4, 2012 Lux jump wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share #4 Posted January 4, 2012 Lux jump wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share #5 Posted January 4, 2012 Lux jump wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share #6 Posted January 4, 2012 The same ebay seller also sold these WWII Luxenberg hallmarked Navigator wings an hour later. Auction #230722857706. The closing bid was $90.87. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share #7 Posted January 4, 2012 Lux Navigator wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share #8 Posted January 4, 2012 Close-up of the Luxenberg hallmark on the Navigator badge. Do the images of this wing sway your opinion, one way or the other, regarding the Lux jump wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeK Posted January 4, 2012 Share #9 Posted January 4, 2012 Hi Russ, I was watching those two out of curiosity. For me, the Navigator is an out-and-out cast repro. The para wings I am unsure of - the obverse detail looks OK (lacking in places though) and the hardware looks good but the maker marking looks cast to me. I'll be interested to read what those with more experience have to say. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted January 4, 2012 Share #10 Posted January 4, 2012 Russ & Mike, After checking out several more of that sellers pass indiscretions on eBay its fair to say there is little doubt he is a flagrant seller of fakes. Two more examples are posted below; therefore, it's fair to say your suspensions are well founded. He's just another internet crook trolling for victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian e Posted January 4, 2012 Share #11 Posted January 4, 2012 it looks like its a casting and not a die struck badge to me my .02 Lux jump wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted January 4, 2012 Share #12 Posted January 4, 2012 Russ, The reverse of hte Jump wings screams "cast" to me... Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted January 4, 2012 Share #13 Posted January 4, 2012 Russ, The reverse of hte Jump wings screams "cast" to me... Paul No doubt in my mind, fantasy piece. So many things wrong with this POS. I know we have a few airborne experts on the forum. Somewhere in an old thread is a list of all the makers of jump wings, and I don't believe Luxenberg as on that list. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insigina Hunter Posted January 4, 2012 Share #14 Posted January 4, 2012 I too was watching these two auctions. I am undecided about the jump wings but the 3inch navagator wings rubbed me completely the wrong way. It looks like they did the same to alot of fellow collectors as the wings only went for $90. My notes show the 3" version with this style hallmark selling in the $500+ range ($526 and $528 to be exact) the only other 3" Luxnberg nav wing I seen sell recently was a 1st pattern hallmarking that went for $763. With that being said I've never seen a legit 3" navigator pair sell for under $480, what these sold for says it all. Instead of the buyer getting a deal on a original nav wing he got and expensive reproduction. I love my luxenbergs but I was not willing to take a shot on either of these pins. If the jump wings are a fake they are a much better one than the navigator wings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mshaw Posted January 4, 2012 Share #15 Posted January 4, 2012 No doubt in my mind, fantasy piece. So many things wrong with this POS. I know we have a few airborne experts on the forum. Somewhere in an old thread is a list of all the makers of jump wings, and I don't believe Luxenberg as on that list. Patrick I agree with you, Patrick. I have NEVER seen Luxenberg on the list of jump wing makers and I have never seen a reputable dealer have one for sale. I vote for out and out fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navynambu Posted January 4, 2012 Share #16 Posted January 4, 2012 I've probably owned over 250-300 WWII jump wings over the last 20 years, and have in person seen hundreds more. I have never seen a Lux jump wing. I don't think I know anyone who has ever seen a Lux jump wing before. The reverse of this Lux jump wing shows it was cast, not die struck, which is a fatal defect in my opinion. But the front of the wing looks pretty neat. Besides being a fake IMHO (and I am a little embarrassed to admit this), I really liked it. It's kind of like fake boobs; I know they are not "genuine" (authentic), but they do have a certain appeal/attaction (i.e., they are "real", just not authentic!). Rollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted January 4, 2012 Share #17 Posted January 4, 2012 The wing in question has been properly identified as a fake several times now, and I echo those thoughts myself. I am one of the ones who used to say that I did not believe that a WWII Luxenberg jump wing existed and have said so many times in the past. In fact, I have been quoted on at least two WWII airborne related websites (without attribution and with the webmaster making it look like he had made the pronouncements) with my list of jump wing manufacturers and their hallmarks. I never had the Luxenberg wing listed as a legit WWII wing because I had never been able to determine that they did exist. I still to this day have never been able to prove through documentation that they exist. Here's where things get a little bit tricky. Two years ago, I was at Show of Shows and was talking to a close friend of mine when he introduced me to a buddy of his who was collecting WWII German. The guy asked me what I collected, and after telling him, he said, you need to see my dad's jump wing. He proceeded to pull out a velvet covered box with hinged lid and inside was what I quickly identified as an Officers' Equipment Company jump wing. The difference between a standard OE wing and this one was that the silver was frosted and all of the feather detail was hand chased. The wing was GORGEOUS! I asked if I could see the back, which he allowed me to do. I flipped the wing over and in the classic script pattern, clearly read LUXENBERG. I asked the guy when his dad served and he told me from right at the end of WWII until 1948. I then asked him if he minded if I showed the wing to another collector, where the guy snapped the lid closed and said, "No, it isn't for sale. I was just showing the wing to you because you're a friend of....." I have no idea who the guy was, and have no more of the story to offer, but I think the wing was 100% original. Is there a possibility that it is WWII vintage? Sure, it's possible, and it could be post war too, but I have specialized in WWII period parachute and glider badges with over 200 variations and have never seen another. Of course, there are a couple of wing makers that I have only seen once or twice. I do not believe for a second that I have seen them all. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted January 4, 2012 Share #18 Posted January 4, 2012 I agree with everyone else that this is a fake paratrooper wing. I've been collecting WW2 era US paratrooper wings for some 30 years now. I've too over the years have never come across a Luxenberg hallmarked US paratrooper wing. When I first saw it on ebay I was a little confused as the front of this wing is rather unique. I haven't come across the features on the front of this wing before on any other wing I've encountered over the many years I have been seeking out variations for my collection. I would have expected whomever made this to use a more common style US paratrooper wing to make the copy from. However once I looked at the back of this wing I felt it was a cast piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted January 4, 2012 Share #19 Posted January 4, 2012 The wing in question has been properly identified as a fake several times now, and I echo those thoughts myself. I am one of the ones who used to say that I did not believe that a WWII Luxenberg jump wing existed and have said so many times in the past. In fact, I have been quoted on at least two WWII airborne related websites (without attribution and with the webmaster making it look like he had made the pronouncements) with my list of jump wing manufacturers and their hallmarks. I never had the Luxenberg wing listed as a legit WWII wing because I had never been able to determine that they did exist. I still to this day have never been able to prove through documentation that they exist. Here's where things get a little bit tricky. Two years ago, I was at Show of Shows and was talking to a close friend of mine when he introduced me to a buddy of his who was collecting WWII German. The guy asked me what I collected, and after telling him, he said, you need to see my dad's jump wing. He proceeded to pull out a velvet covered box with hinged lid and inside was what I quickly identified as an Officers' Equipment Company jump wing. The difference between a standard OE wing and this one was that the silver was frosted and all of the feather detail was hand chased. The wing was GORGEOUS! I asked if I could see the back, which he allowed me to do. I flipped the wing over and in the classic script pattern, clearly read LUXENBERG. I asked the guy when his dad served and he told me from right at the end of WWII until 1948. I then asked him if he minded if I showed the wing to another collector, where the guy snapped the lid closed and said, "No, it isn't for sale. I was just showing the wing to you because you're a friend of....." I have no idea who the guy was, and have no more of the story to offer, but I think the wing was 100% original. Is there a possibility that it is WWII vintage? Sure, it's possible, and it could be post war too, but I have specialized in WWII period parachute and glider badges with over 200 variations and have never seen another. Of course, there are a couple of wing makers that I have only seen once or twice. I do not believe for a second that I have seen them all. Allan You have got me real curious now with your encounter with a possible WW2 era Luxenberg US paratrooper wing. You mentioned the front looked like an Officer Equipment Company US paratrooper wing. I wanted to confirm that the Officer Equipment Company hallmarked paratrooper wing pictured below is the one you are referring to or did OE make the more common style wing with this hallmark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted January 4, 2012 Share #20 Posted January 4, 2012 You have got me real curious now with your encounter with a possible WW2 era Luxenberg US paratrooper wing. You mentioned the front looked like an Officer Equipment Company US paratrooper wing. I wanted to confirm that the Officer Equipment Company hallmarked paratrooper wing pictured below is the one you are referring to or did OE make the more common style wing with this hallmark? Tonomachi, Yes, that is indeed the pattern that i was referring to. As far as I know, O.E. was the only company to use this pattern. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted January 4, 2012 Share #21 Posted January 4, 2012 Tonomachi,Yes, that is indeed the pattern that i was referring to. As far as I know, O.E. was the only company to use this pattern. Allan Thanks for the confirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted January 4, 2012 Share #22 Posted January 4, 2012 Why after closely examining the "Luxenberg" hallmarked badge posted by Russ can anyone have any doubt that it isn't a cast badge? Of course it is a casting and the eBay dealer in question just dipped one of them in a little bleach or sulfur before selling it to some unfortunate, unsuspecting soul for a cool 900% profit while laughing all the way to the bank. Still don't believe it's a cast badge? These Luxenberg hallmarked badges are being produced by a well known maker who sells them as reproductions from his website and through eBay for about $70.00. Need more proof? Check one of his castings below: Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted January 5, 2012 Share #23 Posted January 5, 2012 Should have looked there first ! Check this comparison of the chutes: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: Although, he usually makes his casts from originals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK101 Posted January 5, 2012 Share #24 Posted January 5, 2012 geez....what a minefield. Thanks for the scoop fellas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share #25 Posted January 5, 2012 Thank you all for your input and willingness to share your knowledge. A special thanks to Cliff for his additional investigative efforts and images. I wish there was a more effective way to sound the fraud alarm. I just hope the buyer of this badge Googles the name "Luxenberg" before making payment and stumbles across the collective information provided in this thread. What suprised me the most about this auction was the fact that five different bidders were willing to throw down $400 or more for the bogus jump wing! Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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