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WWI photo ODD wings and squadron pin


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#1 grimble-nibitz

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:27 AM

I thought the community might enjoy the image and the unusual way this pilot wears his squadron pin, UNDER the wing. Also, the wing seems quite unusual. Additionally, he wears French Made winged props, but sewn down instead of pinned...all in all a rather odd photo. Does anyone know what squadron this is?

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Edited by grimble-nibitz, 19 November 2011 - 08:31 AM.


#2 grimble-nibitz

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:30 AM

On the back, it only says, "Burgess, Aunt Ida's Son", so no last name, possible to identify but a tough job. I have the rolls and have not found a Burgess-anything, but there's thousands of names to scan and lack of time has stopped my efforts! If I knew the unit, from the pin, I have the lists to pin him down.

#3 hawk3370

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 09:10 AM

On the back, it only says, "Burgess, Aunt Ida's Son", so no last name, possible to identify but a tough job. I have the rolls and have not found a Burgess-anything, but there's thousands of names to scan and lack of time has stopped my efforts! If I knew the unit, from the pin, I have the lists to pin him down.


This wing shows up a couple times in "New England Aviators" very unique. I believe the collar insignia is Brit rather than French. I can't really make out the center of the squadron pin, however based on the "V" I feel its most likely the 638th Pursuit. The only squadrons that used the large "V" was the 41st, 138th and 638th. All three were in the process of organizing when the war ended. I do not have a roster for the 638th so can't help you there.

Terry

#4 hawk3370

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 09:11 AM

I thought the community might enjoy the image and the unusual way this pilot wears his squadron pin, UNDER the wing. Also, the wing seems quite unusual. Additionally, he wears French Made winged props, but sewn down instead of pinned...all in all a rather odd photo. Does anyone know what squadron this is?


Closer look at the pin I can see the black cat, its the 638th Pursuit Squadron.

Terry

#5 CliffP

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 09:35 AM

It's an interesting trio of insignia.

I've often wondered if the 638th Pursuit Squadron pin posted below was legitimate or not?
It could be... but then again, after looking at your photo, maybe not?

Cliff

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Edited by CliffP, 19 November 2011 - 09:44 AM.


#6 hawk3370

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 09:50 AM

[quote name='CliffP' date='Nov 19 2011, 09:35 AM' post='958528']
It's an interesting trio of insignia.

I've often wondered it the 638th Pursuit Squadron pin posted below was legitimate or not?
It could be... but then again, after looking at your photo, maybe not?

Cliff
[/quote

Cliff,
I can't recall ever seeing a reproduction of this pin, in fact I can't recall ever seeing the actual 638th squadron pin. As you know the squadron never saw any combat as the war ended a couple weeks after it was assigned to the 5th Pursuit Group. With that in mind all these insignia had to be made and purchased in the short time these guys remained in country before coming home. I doubt if there were any more than a handful made. I would lean towards yours being a legit pin. Not a lot of people even know that there was a 638th Pursuit and I doubt if there would be a market to reproduce these pins.
Terry

#7 LuftStalg1

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 10:35 AM

It's an interesting trio of insignia.

I've often wondered if the 638th Pursuit Squadron pin posted below was legitimate or not?
It could be... but then again, after looking at your photo, maybe not?

Cliff

Cliff, is this the recent pin off of Ebay? There is a particular seller that has had several of these that are all made the same way and out of silver rather then the enameled officer variety. All of his that I have seen have the same pin and appear to be fake, IMO. The silver enlisted variations are easy to make. And I noticed that particular seller seems to have bad stuff mixed in with good stuff.

MD

#8 CliffP

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 11:40 AM

Cliff, is this the recent pin off of Ebay? There is a particular seller that has had several of these that are all made the same way and out of silver rather then the enameled officer variety. All of his that I have seen have the same pin and appear to be fake, IMO. The silver enlisted variations are easy to make. And I noticed that particular seller seems to have bad stuff mixed in with good stuff.

MD


Hi MD,

It came from an auction house in Dallas, TX a few years ago. It is very well made and was not expensive but I've always had some doubts about it. If you recall the sellers MO on eBay would you mind sending me a PM with the name? I would like to check him out myself.

Kind regards,

Cliff :-)

#9 CliffP

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 03:06 PM

:think:
Okay, checked all the completed auctions for "redbluecoats" but still not convinced
the one we have can be trusted.

Cliff

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Edited by CliffP, 19 November 2011 - 03:12 PM.


#10 hawk3370

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 04:26 PM

:think:
Okay, checked all the completed auctions for "redbluecoats" but still not convinced
the one we have can be trusted.

Cliff


Cliff,
Significant difference between the two pins. I guess we will not really know until a documented example shows up. I'm not sure I share your concern about the one you have. The quality of it is much better than the second example found recently.

Terry

#11 CliffP

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 09:24 PM

Cliff,
Significant difference between the two pins. I guess we will not really know until a documented example shows up. I'm not sure I share your concern about the one you have. The quality of it is much better than the second example found recently.

Terry

Terry,

Many thanks for those encouraging words. I'm now pumped up and motivated to try and find a documented example.

Cliff :wacko:


On the back, it only says, "Burgess, Aunt Ida's Son", so no last name, possible to identify but a tough job. I have the rolls and have not found a Burgess-anything, but there's thousands of names to scan and lack of time has stopped my efforts! If I knew the unit, from the pin, I have the lists to pin him down.


grimble-nibitz, :unsure:

Sorry for getting so personally involved with your thread earlier.

The name of the pilot in the photograph is 2/Lt. Burgess F. Creeth, RMA. Born 1896 in Adams, Nebreska. he was a Sergeant with the 89th Aero Squadron (ground unit) in France before receiving a commission and flight training at the 3rd Aviation Instruction Center, Issoudun, France. Assigned to the 638th Aero Squadron after the Armistice. He received a degree from the Colorado School of Mines in 1920 before moving to Hastings, NE and lived at 300 West Sixth Street. Died on 27 July 1924, cause unknown.

Cliff

Edited by CliffP, 19 November 2011 - 09:54 PM.


#12 hawk3370

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 05:42 AM

I thought the community might enjoy the image and the unusual way this pilot wears his squadron pin, UNDER the wing. Also, the wing seems quite unusual. Additionally, he wears French Made winged props, but sewn down instead of pinned...all in all a rather odd photo. Does anyone know what squadron this is?



Grimble-nibtz,
I believe this is the same wing being worn by your Lt.

Terry

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#13 Drew Wright

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:37 AM

Well, I'm a bit late to this dance but better late than never, I hope.  I have a very well documented group to a member of the 638 AS that has a unit pin amongst the items.  The original owner of this grouping was the person that actually designed the unit insignia and I have many examples of it that I can show here (I also have draft drawings of the design but didn't take any pics of it).

 

Below is the pin that came with the grouping.  I varies significantly from the examples shown earlier in this thread.  I have no idea if those are original or not, but certainly believe this one to be.

 

Here is a pic of the front of the pin.

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#14 Drew Wright

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:38 AM

Reverse

 

 

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#15 Drew Wright

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:39 AM

With a few other items

 

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#16 Drew Wright

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:40 AM

His collar insignia was also sewn down

 

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#17 Drew Wright

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:42 AM

Uniform wing

 

 

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#18 Drew Wright

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:43 AM

Footlocker

 

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#19 Drew Wright

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:44 AM

Large piece of unit artwork

 

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#20 Drew Wright

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:45 AM

Trench art front

 

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#21 Drew Wright

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:46 AM

Trench art reverse.

 

Hope these are of interest!

 

Regards,

 

Drew

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#22 BEAST

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:52 AM

Trench art reverse.

 

Hope these are of interest!

 

Regards,

 

Drew

 

Absolutely!  Outstanding additions to the thread!  Does your group contain any rosters? Maybe you might be able to find the name of the aviator in the original post.

 

Thanks for sharing this!
 



#23 hawk3370

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 01:48 PM

With a few other items

 

 

Drew,

Now that is one of the finest groups I have seen in some time. Thanks for posting. The collar insignia in the frame appear to be Dunham"s. My heart skips a beat when I see a grouping such as this.

Terry



#24 Drew Wright

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 06:38 PM

Thanks, guys.  Glad the pics are of interest.  I went through some of the paperwork and it's a small world, indeed.  The person in the pic at the start of this thread is on a unit roster dated end of March 1919.

 

Pic 1:

 

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#25 Drew Wright

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 06:39 PM

Roster pic with Burgess Creeth listed as a 2Lt.

 

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