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MORTAR 60MM - M2 - M4 Propelling Cartridges


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#1 pzjgr

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 04:39 AM

Here is a couple of boxes of M4 60mm mortar ignition/propelling cartridges I came across...one is late WWII Winchester manufacture, the other just post Korea vintage Federal....Although the cartrdiges are all WWII Winchester...I found the boxes seperate from the cartridges.

Neat little cartridges, basically cut down 28 gauge shotgun shells...they have a bulge in the case which is intentional, helped keep them up the pipe....

DSC02448.JPG

Edited by pzjgr, 07 November 2011 - 04:40 AM.


#2 Charlie Flick

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 11:34 AM

Great stuff there, Pzjgr. It all looks to be in top shape, too. Those cartridges are rarely seen, at least in my experience. Thanks for the post.

Regards,
Charlie

Edited by Charlie Flick, 07 November 2011 - 11:35 AM.


#3 Garandomatic

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:53 AM

Good reason to always read the label on a box of shells! I've beat this dead horse into the ground on this and a firearms forum every time the topic comes up, but I once read a story about a man that reached in his "random ammo" drawer and grabbed a few shotfun shells to go hunting. One was a propellant charge for an 81mm mortar, I think. Ruined his gun and messed him up good.

#4 Greaser

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:12 AM

Good reason to always read the label on a box of shells! I've beat this dead horse into the ground on this and a firearms forum every time the topic comes up, but I once read a story about a man that reached in his "random ammo" drawer and grabbed a few shotfun shells to go hunting. One was a propellant charge for an 81mm mortar, I think. Ruined his gun and messed him up good.


If the story is true, the man was a damn fool - because its OBVIOUS that there is something "not right" about the "shells". I question if they would even chamber without undue effort.

heres a photo of a couple of M3 base charges from my collection. http://www.90thidpg....es/IMG_1363.jpg

The "bulge" is a bit subdued in the photos. It is quite pronounced in person...

#5 Garandomatic

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 01:32 PM

Dunno, man. Saw it in an old issue of American Rifleman, or an outdoors magazine. Forget which, was reading it at my grandpa's maybe 15 years ago. I remember it was a double barrel.

Edited by Garandomatic, 08 November 2011 - 01:34 PM.


#6 Greaser

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 03:32 PM

Just to totally put this to bed, here's a M3 increment charge and a 12 GA barrel....

PICT4136__Custom_.JPG

12 GA shell in same barrel. Drops right in.

PICT4137__Custom_.JPG

What this says is multifold - 1.) This story as published in American Rifleman or whatever magazine is patently false. 2.) If true, the gentleman who blew his shotgun up of his own stupidity must have physically forced the cartridge into the chamber - since it was a double barrel, this cant be dismissed as the action overcoming the bulge. or 3.) The chamber on the gentleman's weapon was dangerously oversized / out of spec.

Food for thought.

------

I wrote up a brief piece on the 81 increment charges some time back. http://www.90thidpg....ents/index.html

I always an excited to see mortar bits and pieces come out of the woodwork. Particularly these base charges and increments. There was a great thread on 4.2 base charges and increments recently with some photos of stunning originals.

Edited by Greaser, 08 November 2011 - 03:36 PM.


#7 Garandomatic

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 10:33 PM

I didn't doubt you in the first place, you seemed to clearly know more about mortar charges before the field test. Myth BUSTED, it looks like, photographic evidence to boot.! I only mentioned double barrel because pump actions can be a bit more finnicky when feeding rounds. I had some reloads that chambered fine in a double barrel, but the crimp was a problem in the Ithaca and Winchester. What can I say, was just one of those stories that stuck with me as something to pay attention to. If it DID happen, well, that'd be a pretty bad day, you know?

#8 Greaser

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 06:32 AM

I didn't doubt you in the first place, you seemed to clearly know more about mortar charges before the field test. Myth BUSTED, it looks like, photographic evidence to boot.! I only mentioned double barrel because pump actions can be a bit more finnicky when feeding rounds. I had some reloads that chambered fine in a double barrel, but the crimp was a problem in the Ithaca and Winchester. What can I say, was just one of those stories that stuck with me as something to pay attention to. If it DID happen, well, that'd be a pretty bad day, you know?


My itnent isnt and wasnt to pass any judgement on you personally, as you were simply conveying what you had read in a respectable source - My intent was to debunk legend / myth where I can. This is one i could easily tackle head on - others, certainly know the answers to, but I'm not sure I want to step in those cowpies. Theres enough of that floating around on the net....

Warm wishes.

Chris-

Edited by Greaser, 09 November 2011 - 06:33 AM.


#9 Garandomatic

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:45 AM

No problem here, either, man. No unfriendly tone typed, anyway! Neat to see it actually tested.

#10 pzjgr

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:29 AM

Here are some pics of the M4 cartridges themselves....

cart1.jpg

DSC02473.JPG

#11 pzjgr

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:30 AM

Two more...

DSC02474.JPG

DSC02475.JPG

#12 robinb

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:57 PM

Here's the 81mm equivalent. Just a larger version of the 60mm.
81mm.JPG


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