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NCO Wings


ram957
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Was it possible for an NCO to earn pilot wings in the USAAF ?

 

 

Yes is the short answer. Not at home atm but search the forum for enlisted pilots as well as google. I have posted a wing from a sSGT from class 42H

 

Cheers

John

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Off subject slightly, in the late 50's - early 60's it was not uncommon to see USAF Airmen and NCOs wearing pilot, senior pilot and command pilot wings. Right after the Korean war a lot of pilots were RIF'd (Reduction in Force). If they hadmore than 10 years commissioned service, a lot of them elected to finsih out their 20 years as enlisted troops. At 20 years, they could then retire at the hightest rank honorably held. In reality, not a bad deal.

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Off subject slightly, in the late 50's - early 60's it was not uncommon to see USAF Airmen and NCOs wearing pilot, senior pilot and command pilot wings. Right after the Korean war a lot of pilots were RIF'd (Reduction in Force). If they hadmore than 10 years commissioned service, a lot of them elected to finsih out their 20 years as enlisted troops. At 20 years, they could then retire at the hightest rank honorably held. In reality, not a bad deal.

 

True. In the early 1980s, we had a TSgt Flight Engineer who wore pilot's wings. He had been a Captain and Jolly Green Giant rescue pilot in SEA. He was RIF'd during the mid-1970s drawdown but offered an enlited billet as a Flight engineer and he took it. Last time I saw him, he had advanced to MSgt.

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When I was in Korea, 1971, a Communications Squadron commander a Lieutenant Colonel who had been a pilot got RIFed. He had a problem with alcohol and became a Buck Sergeant and shipped back to the States to finish out his 20-years.

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NCO Glider Pilot too:

 

 

 

June 28, 1942, Washington D.C. The German-born film star, Marlene Dietrich, smiles at Sergeant William T. Sampson II from the cockpit of a glider. A few hours after this picture was taken, Sampson was presented the first pair of glider pilot wings ever to be awarded to U.S. Army glider pilot. William T. Sampson

post-202-1317127558.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

There were approximately 3,000 "Sergeant Pilots" from WWI to WWII. Most were eventually commissioned as Second

Lieutenants or became "Flight Officers", a kind of Warrant Officer (Chuck Yeager started out as a "Sergeant Pilot"). The last actually actually flying as a NCO pilot retired in 1957! I can't find my copy quickly, but check out "They Also Flew, The Enlisted Pilot Legacy, 1912-1942" by Lee Arbon for full details. I found it a fascinating book.

 

There were also a handful of "Enlisted Aviators" prior to and during WW1.

 

Chris

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When I was in Korea, 1971, a Communications Squadron commander a Lieutenant Colonel who had been a pilot got RIFed. He had a problem with alcohol and became a Buck Sergeant and shipped back to the States to finish out his 20-years.

WoW....that has to be an interesting story in and of itself. Do you have any more information?

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Was it possible for an NCO to earn pilot wings in the USAAF ?

 

Its interresting to note that in WWII the U.S. was the only belligerent not to use NCOs as fighter pilots.

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Garth Thompson

Here is a picture of a PFC LIason Pilot for the Illinois State Guard in WW2. I know his grandson who is a retired NWA pilot.

post-83-1320603357.jpg

post-83-1320603405.jpg

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Garth Thompson
Would their wings have looked any different than pilot wings of the WWII era? Anyone have any photos of known examples?

Look at the picture right above your post.

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Garth Thompson

Any enlisted pilot would have worn the same wings as commissioned pilots in WW2. Plain shield, G, L or S

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Its interresting to note that in WWII the U.S. was the only belligerent not to use NCOs as fighter pilots.

 

Not true, but it's not well known:

 

"Half of the first graduating class of flying sergeants went overseas with the P-38-equipped 82nd Fighter Group. Members of this class shot down 130 enemy aircraft, and nine became aces. In all, former sergeant pilots destroyed 249.5 enemy aircraft and 18 became aces flying fighters. William J. Sloan was the leading ace of the 12th Air Force with 12 victories. Four WWII enlisted pilots became general officers (seven pre-WWII enlisted pilots also became generals). Also included among former sergeant pilots are international race car driver Carroll H. Shelby and USAF test pilot and later air show aerobatic performer Robert A. "Bob" Hoover."

 

from a National Museum of the U.S. Air Force factsheet

 

I learned about a "Sergeant Pilot's Association" when I was in the NCO Academy in 1982 and did a presentation on them. It's a topic about which I feel compelled to inform people.

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I have a great grouping to a WWII Staff Sergeant Pilot who became an officer eventually. Looks like he was in the transport service. I would like to get a set of wings to complete the uniform display I have for him, What type do you think I should use for it and any specific construction to keep the early wwii time period correct?

 

Here is a link to the Staff Sergeant Pilot grouping.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...=102028&hl=

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Garth Thompson
I have a great grouping to a WWII Staff Sergeant Pilot who became an officer eventually. Looks like he was in the transport service. I would like to get a set of wings to complete the uniform display I have for him, What type do you think I should use for it and any specific construction to keep the early wwii time period correct?

 

Here is a link to the Staff Sergeant Pilot grouping.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...=102028&hl=

A nice standard clutchback sterling marked pilot wing is what he would have got when he graduated from flight school. That would do nicely and correctly for your group.

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Not true, but it's not well known:

 

"Half of the first graduating class of flying sergeants went overseas with the P-38-equipped 82nd Fighter Group. Members of this class shot down 130 enemy aircraft, and nine became aces. In all, former sergeant pilots destroyed 249.5 enemy aircraft and 18 became aces flying fighters. William J. Sloan was the leading ace of the 12th Air Force with 12 victories. Four WWII enlisted pilots became general officers (seven pre-WWII enlisted pilots also became generals). Also included among former sergeant pilots are international race car driver Carroll H. Shelby and USAF test pilot and later air show aerobatic performer Robert A. "Bob" Hoover."

 

from a National Museum of the U.S. Air Force factsheet

 

I learned about a "Sergeant Pilot's Association" when I was in the NCO Academy in 1982 and did a presentation on them. It's a topic about which I feel compelled to inform people.

Bravo! I agree wholeheartedly. At McClellan AFB, Ca we had "Rafftery Hall" dedicated to MSgt Tom Rafferty, an enlisted pilot killed in a C~47 crash in the nearby Sierras. I hope to someday visit that crash site.

In the meantime, here are a few sites that might be of interest:

http://afehri.maxwell.af.mil/Documents/pdf/liaison.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Aviator_Badge

http://afehri.maxwell.af.mil/Documents/pdf/McDonald.pdf

http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/docum...-100526-031.pdf

"They Also Flew" IS one of the best books about enlisted pilots.

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From "United States Naval Aviation 1910-1995", page 656:

 

Uniform Regulations, Change Number 18 of 1 April 1918, states “Naval Aviator’s Device-Device for naval aviators will be a winged foul anchor, to be worn by qualified naval aviators. This device will be issued . . . and worn on the left breast.” Change number 20 (undated) has the following pertinent information: “Chapter 10 and changes 11, 12, 14, 16, and 18 of Uniform Regulations, 1913, are annulled and in lieu thereof this chapter is substituted: NAVAL AVIATOR’S DEVICE-Device for naval aviators will be a winged foul anchor, to be worn by qualified naval aviators. This device will be issued by the Bureau of Navigation to officers and men of the Navy and Marine Corps who qualify as naval aviators, and will be worn on the left breast.” Another modification to the 1913 Uniform Regulation was made by Change 29, dated 13 May 1920. In Article 262, under “Naval Aviator’s Device” the title of the paragraph was changed to read “Naval Aviation Insignia” and the first sentence read: “Insignia to be worn by qualified naval aviators and by warrant officers and enlisted men holding certificate of qualification as naval aviation pilots, is a winged foul anchor.”

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Not true, but it's not well known:

 

"Half of the first graduating class of flying sergeants went overseas with the P-38-equipped 82nd Fighter Group. Members of this class shot down 130 enemy aircraft, and nine became aces. In all, former sergeant pilots destroyed 249.5 enemy aircraft and 18 became aces flying fighters. William J. Sloan was the leading ace of the 12th Air Force with 12 victories. Four WWII enlisted pilots became general officers (seven pre-WWII enlisted pilots also became generals). Also included among former sergeant pilots are international race car driver Carroll H. Shelby and USAF test pilot and later air show aerobatic performer Robert A. "Bob" Hoover."

 

from a National Museum of the U.S. Air Force factsheet

 

I learned about a "Sergeant Pilot's Association" when I was in the NCO Academy in 1982 and did a presentation on them. It's a topic about which I feel compelled to inform people.

 

You can say that again I for one never heard of this, thanks for putting that up, but from the artical it is said they did not remain NCOs for long. As for the other nations they did use NCOs and Petty Officers as a matter of course through out the war, some of them where no doubt promoted to officer rank or Warrent officer grade but the majority where not promoted to those Officer and warrent grades, these NCOS would be of the senior rank and would command the highest degree of respect in their respective air forces and naval aviation services.

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