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pre WW2 BAR belt


RCS
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1z5kl02.jpg Early BAR belt with the cup to hold the buttstock, some of these belts had the cup removed and were re-issued for WW2. The buttstock on the BAR was also changed to use a hinged flap in the late 30's which could not be used in this cup. Very few of these modified belts are still around. The bipod dates to around 1937 and was used on the 1918A1, there are drawing numbers on the bipod.
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Very few of these modified belts are still around.

This is wider problem with all early BAR belts -- simply US Army sold them abroad in interwar period, to Poland among others.

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When you say "pre-WW2" what's its actual date? I have a mint one which is WW1 dated. I'd be interested to know if production was maintained in the between-the-wars years? Thanks.

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When you say "pre-WW2" what's its actual date? I have a mint one which is WW1 dated. I'd be interested to know if production was maintained in the between-the-wars years? Thanks.

Mine is dated 1918, I have seen photos from a collector in the UK that showed the modified belt with the cup removed.

 

Do you think the early bipod got into WW2 ?

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Hi Guys, hi Ian !

Speaking of BAR belts I will repost a couple of pictures I posted some time ago asking for some yellow stripes on the metal around the steel cup (not pictured here).

Originally I was pointing up the fact that this belt, absolutely mint and dated on all pieces LONG 7-18, is "surely" unissued due to a mistake in making the male portion of the buckle. As you can see some metal of the buckle was not grinded off after the cast process resulting in an unserviceable belt. Obviously this odd buckle escaped the inspector's eyes... I think this is a very "particular" belt and I wonder who kept it and why (souvenir?) in the years following the WWI, well before it could become an appreciate collector's item...

Fausto

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Mine is dated 1918, I have seen photos from a collector in the UK that showed the modified belt with the cup removed.

 

Do you think the early bipod got into WW2 ?

 

Almost certainly.

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Can I toss mine into the mix? WW1 production also by R.H. LONG, 06-18...unissued. Note the two-tone appearance of the webbing and the fact that all of the constituent parts of the belt are individually stamped.

 

 

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Ian...You have there a gem!

It is surely the best WWI BAR belt I have seen. But what is very interesting to me is the fact that your one, dated 6-18 has the later pointed style closing flaps, while mine, dated 7-18 has the earlier rounded style ones... As far as I know it is a common collector's believe that the rounded flaps are old style and the pointed ones later style. So we have a problem... Probably the two belts manufacture falls in a short (one month...) period in which Long was turning to the pointed flaps and mismatched - as often occurred - what they had in stock at the plant...What do you think?

Anyway let me say that one of the things which makes this hobby so fascinating is that every day you have something to learn and another brick to add to the wall...

Thanks for sharing your fantastic BAR belt...

Fausto

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Ciao Fausto! Yes, fascinating details! I noticed that the date of manufacture or our belts was very close. Maybe R.H. Long was the prime contractor? The BAR was a new weapon back then so these belts would have been a state-of-the-art design.

 

Ian :thumbsup:

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Yes Ian, I think that Long was the prime contractor indeed, but I know for sure that also Plant Brothers made these belts. A state-of-the-art design? For sure... Nice to see, but expensive to make and... totally ineffective on the field...

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I love B.A.R. Belts :P Thanks, fellas, for putting up all these beauties.

 

I think the round flaps were a short-lived thing; I have a 1918-dated Long '03 Cartridge Belt which has these, and also a right and left set of B.A.R. Bandoleers.

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Markings from my belt. The nice green color is a joke of the camera. IMHO seeing the huge amount of WWI surplus I think they didn't produced anything between wars but converted a lot of them during first months of WWII.

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I can add to the mix too...My BAR belt is dated:6-18 on the cup part, 7-18 on the belt and 8-18 on the other pouches.They also have the rounded flaps on the pouches and are fairly dark olive drab.

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craig_pickrall

The round flap pockets may have been made for only a short time but they stayed in actual usage for a long time after. This is a WW2 Marine BAR man.

 

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El Bibliotecario

I hate posts like this because they force me to go out in the garage and dig around in my junk to find stuff to photograph. But having done so...

 

The attached belt is self explanatory from its markings--a Plant Bros. 2d Assistant BAR belt, obviously for a soldier armed with a rifle. I'd assume belts like this were later converted to regular BAR belts--yet when I purchased this new example in the '80s, the vendor had a supply of them.

 

But since buying it, I've wondered what sort of belt a 1st Assistant wore

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That's a very fine example...love the printed description on the belt itself. WW2 upgrades are usually identifiable by the added pockets which usually differ slightly in colour/shape from the originals.

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I hate posts like this because they force me to go out in the garage and dig around in my junk to find stuff to photograph. But having done so...

 

The attached belt is self explanatory from its markings--a Plant Bros. 2d Assistant BAR belt, obviously for a soldier armed with a rifle. I'd assume belts like this were later converted to regular BAR belts--yet when I purchased this new example in the '80s, the vendor had a supply of them.

 

But since buying it, I've wondered what sort of belt a 1st Assistant wore

 

 

Again shame on you Bib. If you would have been more proficient in the past now you'd know that first assistant belt simply doesn't exist. As Carter Rila told us in older forums, the first assistant wore a gunner belt because he had to pick up the gun in the case the original gunner would have been wounded or killed. Anyway the 2nd assistant belt is much more difficult to find than the gunner one just because most were converted for WWII use, Casually I see only PB Bros mde belts. Mine is a june 1918.

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El Bibliotecario

Having learned that, I'm tempted to sew a a lot of ratty old khaki pouches on a belt to make a mythical '1st Asst BAR belt' to put on Ebay.

 

 

If the 1st asst wore a regular BAR belt with no rifle pouches, what was his primary weapon? A pistol? Or did he carry rifle ammunition in one of the BAR magazine pouches?

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Having learned that, I'm tempted to sew a a lot of ratty old khaki pouches on a belt to make a mythical '1st Asst BAR belt' to put on Ebay.

If the 1st asst wore a regular BAR belt with no rifle pouches, what was his primary weapon? A pistol? Or did he carry rifle ammunition in one of the BAR magazine pouches?

Possibly just a pistol and maybe bandoleers. Solcarlus, in France, has a manual where the matter is explained. I'll try to find his posts about.

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