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WWII PTO Photo: M1 Carbine with Mounted Bayonet


gunbarrel
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Background

 

The following information is highly condensed and paraphrased from Gary M. Cunningham (Bayonetman)'s excellent book "American Military Bayonets of the 20th Century."

 

The M1 carbine was not designed to be fitted with a bayonet. Since it was recognized that a soldier armed with a carbine may need a fighting knife some time, a directive in early 1943 called for the M3 trench knife was to be issued to all troops armed with the carbine. Not long after that, units issued the carbine and the trench knife began asking for a bayonet for the M1 carbine. In late 1943, the Army began working on a bayonet design for the little gun.

 

The result was the M4 bayonet, which was adopted in May 1944. Carbines made from June 1944 onwards were to be retrofitted with an assembly to mount the bayonet, but due to supply delays, very few carbines fitted for bayonet use saw action during the war.

 

Discussion

 

WWII photos of M1 carbines with mounted M4 bayonets are as rare as hens' teeth. Next in rarity are photos of M1 carbines with Model of 1905 bayonets or M1 bayonets. As my friend Charlie Flick says, "Photos of mounted M1 carbine bayonets in WW2 are a lot like photos of Bigfoot. Always grainy, out of focus and sure to stir a controversy." :D Well, Frank Trzaska pointed out that there is actually a very clear picture shown on p. 226 of Alec S. Tulkoff's book "Grunt Gear." The caption reads "On Bougainville in November 1943, this Marine adapted his carbine to accept a modified M1905 bayonet."

 

For Fathers Day, among other things my daughter got me this video:

 

http://www.booksamillion.com/p/War-Pacific...d=5149217384542

 

Sixteen minutes into Disc 2, while watching Marines fighting in Eniwetok, I thought I saw "something." So, I put it in reverse slow motion and this is what I saw:

 

post-70-1314930228.jpg

 

I grabbed my camera and took two pictures of the TV screen. I'm posting a close-up below.

 

Hope you enjoy the thread.

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The Marines made a lot of "modifications" during WWII, it got the job done with some good old ingenuity.

 

They were a bright lot, time has taken many of them away who never told of their war experiences not even to their families.

 

Good catch.

 

RC

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GB,

 

Now that you mention it, I haven't ever seen many WWII photos of bayonets fixed. Seems in maybe 80% of Civil War photos, they are present, which rather makes sense.

 

That really is cool seeing a M1 bayonet mounted on a carbine! Thanks.

 

FWIW, it's possible to run that DVD on your computer, and with the right 'player' software, grab a sceenshot while it's running. It could provide some extra detail of that very rare combination.

 

Regards,

Don.

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You're welcome. I really do find that sort of make-it-work, determination and ingenuity, very interesting. It directly relates to that first Patton quote in my signature, and comparisons can be found to the second one, as well.

I look forward to viewing your success with the screenshots.

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  1.  

Background

 

The following information is highly condensed and paraphrased from Gary M. Cunningham (Bayonetman)'s excellent book "American Military Bayonets of the 20th Century."

 

The M1 carbine was not designed to be fitted with a bayonet. Since it was recognized that a soldier armed with a carbine may need a fighting knife some time, a directive in early 1943 called for the M3 trench knife was to be issued to all troops armed with the carbine. Not long after that, units issued the carbine and the trench knife began asking for a bayonet for the M1 carbine. In late 1943, the Army began working on a bayonet design for the little gun.

 

The result was the M4 bayonet, which was adopted in May 1944. Carbines made from June 1944 onwards were to be retrofitted with an assembly to mount the bayonet, but due to supply delays, very few carbines fitted for bayonet use saw action during the war.

 

Discussion

 

WWII photos of M1 carbines with mounted M4 bayonets are as rare as hens' teeth. Next in rarity are photos of M1 carbines with Model of 1905 bayonets or M1 bayonets. As my friend Charlie Flick says, "Photos of mounted M1 carbine bayonets in WW2 are a lot like photos of Bigfoot. Always grainy, out of focus and sure to stir a controversy." :D Well, Frank Trzaska pointed out that there is actually a very clear picture shown on p. 226 of Alec S. Tulkoff's book "Grunt Gear." The caption reads "On Bougainville in November 1943, this Marine adapted his carbine to accept a modified M1905 bayonet."

 

For Fathers Day, among other things my daughter got me this video:

 

http://www.booksamillion.com/p/War-Pacific...d=5149217384542

 

Sixteen minutes into Disc 2, while watching Marines fighting in Eniwetok, I thought I saw "something." So, I put it in reverse slow motion and this is what I saw:

 

post-70-1314930228.jpg

 

I grabbed my camera and took two pictures of the TV screen. I'm posting a close-up below.

 

Hope you enjoy the thread.

I have a buddy that loves collecting militaria however he has little knowledge of WWII or of most anything in his collection. He doesn't have a lot of money to spend so when he see something I have he will often times try to duplicate it. Once he saw a very nice Cavalry canteen and just had to have one. When I told him what he would pay he said that the would just make one. Next time I saw him he had found a V/N era canteen cover with the baby dot snaps instead of lift the dots. He sewed some loops on made a leather strap, and placed a hook on the end. He was as happy as a puppy with two peters. I asked what he was going to do with it and he said put it in a static display at some event. "It's not right."I said and he just said "nobody will know."

That has nothing to do with this post other than to give you some insight into the mindset of my buddy. And yes he is my buddy. He would do anything for you. After having the no bayonets on carbines in WWII conversation he called me one night. Just tickled pink, and saying I got you now, Mr. Know it all! He then told me of this dvd. I told him he was not seeing a WWII carbine in the Pacific with a factory bayonet lug on it. He said I was wrong and 2 days later I received this DVD in the mail. I watched it, then called him and told him that he still had not seen a factory bayonet on a carbine. He plugged his DVD in and I did and we watched together. I then told him when to hit the stop and pause buttons and we examined this thing together. Clearly when I saw it I could easily tell this was a modification. It took some time but he finally agreed.

Yes we can find these kinds of modifications but we cannot find the "real deal."

The closest I've come is an 11th A/B guard detail in Japan just after the war with carbines with the bayonet lug.

I would love to find a photo and put this argument to rest, but as hard as look I cannot find one.

Thanks for posting this and running the DVD won't help anything because there really isn't a better picture than the one you posted.

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Charlie Flick

I'm here to stir the pot. :thumbsup:

 

Here is a very sharp photo of an M1 carbine with a mounted bayonet. Taken in England in 1942 by a Life photographer.

 

d3bf06701fbc46bd_large.jpg

 

The photo was extracted from another thread which explains that this odd bayonet was actually a one-off example. See:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=85257

 

Regards,

Charlie Flick

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I'm here to stir the pot. :thumbsup:

 

Here is a very sharp photo of an M1 carbine with a mounted bayonet. Taken in England in 1942 by a Life photographer.

 

d3bf06701fbc46bd_large.jpg

 

The photo was extracted from another thread which explains that this odd bayonet was actually a one-off example. See:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=85257

 

Regards,

Charlie Flick

 

Charlie,

That's a great photo, but there are others out there showing these bayonets. Notice i used the plural as there were a number of these made, though it was done in low numbers. Soldiers of 2/503 which became the 509th PIB came up with the design and made them. Edson Raff mentions these bayonets in his bbok "We Jumped to Fight."

 

Allan

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I'm here to stir the pot. :thumbsup:

 

Here is a very sharp photo of an M1 carbine with a mounted bayonet. Taken in England in 1942 by a Life photographer.

 

d3bf06701fbc46bd_large.jpg

 

The photo was extracted from another thread which explains that this odd bayonet was actually a one-off example. See:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...showtopic=85257

 

Regards,

Charlie Flick

Charlie I don't think this stirred the pot because we know there are examples of carbines with bayonets some how attached. There is the clear photo above that some of us had already seen and your photo that proves that. What we don't have but would love to see is the standard carbine....late war configuration, with a bayonet lug serving in a combat zone prior to the war's end. Come up with that and you have found something.

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  • 1 year later...

Well, I guess mystery or query solved?

T4 Bayonet lug on an M1 Carbine on Iwo Jima.

M1CarbineIwoJima_zpsc141db01.jpg

Now... does anyoen want to explain this set up? Stateside U.S.

WWII-19_zps08b351d8.jpg

Regards,

FRISCAN

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Hey Gang! I have never, ever seen that picture of the makeshift bayonet, and lug. What a prize that combo would be to find. Do any of the M1 Carbine books cover this. I know Reisch doen't. I don't have "War Baby". Totally impressed! SKIP

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I know that folks disagree on if carbines with bayonet lugs made it into combat during WW2 but I did have a photo at one time of a group of Marine officers taken in Hawaii before leaving for the Iwo invasion and it showed some of them with carbines with bayonet lugs. So, I do believe some made it into combat, although certainly not widespread.

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