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USMC CHINA MARINE TIENSIN HQ Co EGA BADGE


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#1 kanemono

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:12 AM

Here is an EGA that sold on E-Bay. Here is the description:

RARE USMC CHINA MARINE TIENSIN HQ Co EGA BADGE INSIGNIA
SALTY LOOKING, HAVE BEEN BEND (PERIOD) TO ADJUST BETTER ON THE FUR HAT
PICTURED PAGE 364 AND 365 IN THE GREAT BOOK OF ALEK TULKOFF "EQUIPPING THE CORPS 1892-1937"

Is it real?
Dick

Attached Images

  • China_fur_cap_EGA_A.jpg
  • China_fur_cap_EGA_B.jpg
  • China_fur_cap_EGA_C.jpg


#2 kanemono

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:14 AM

This sold for $1,029.99
.ebay.com/itm/RARE-USMC-CHINA-MARINE-TIENSIN-HQ-Co-EGA-BADGE-INSIGNIA-/220838598239?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336b01965f
Dick

Attached Images

  • China_fur_cap_EGA_D.jpg
  • China_fur_cap_EGA_E.jpg

Edited by kanemono, 30 August 2011 - 11:17 AM.


#3 Alec

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:17 AM

I believe it to be real, but it is the most common found.

#4 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:37 AM

It's legit - look at williamsmilitariarelics.com for more - William is a member here.

Edited by teufelhunde.ret, 30 August 2011 - 11:39 AM.


#5 Jack's Son

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 12:01 PM

D,
Your link does not work! Is this ebay price about right for the market ?

#6 Dirk

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 12:04 PM

I like the one above...

The others on the web site I am not as sure of....early EGA on the other Tientsin one?.....not enough photos for me to judge on the other two....there is another forum member who has handled a number of these....I would wait for his opinion on the others.

Edited by Dirk, 30 August 2011 - 12:25 PM.


#7 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 12:07 PM

D,
Your link does not work! Is this ebay price about right for the market ?

J. sorry iPhone problems. Good ones come along so seldom... the prices these sell for, is the market.

#8 Brig

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 06:08 PM

I'd say that's a bit higher than the last couple we saw...but it has been awhile since one popped up on eBay

#9 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 03:58 AM

...Your link does not work

http://www.williamsm...20Insignias.htm

and a pic of each one left for sale...

Attached Images

  • 11_08_2920_20Medium_20Web_20view.jpg
  • 11_08_2922_20Medium_20Web_20view.jpg
  • 11_08_2924_20Medium_20Web_20view.jpg


#10 usmcaviator

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 10:49 PM

I believe it to be real, but it is the most common found.

Alec,
Are you referring to the EGA or the diamond? There is nothing common about China Marine diamonds.

S/F,
Mike

#11 usmcaviator

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 11:16 PM

I'd say that's a bit higher than the last couple we saw...but it has been awhile since one popped up on eBay

I purchased the last 4 of 5 real ones to post on E-bay. They were all in the $600-1000 range. I missed one that went for $1595. I own two white diamonds, and two yellow diamonds. I know of one version of these diamonds that I trust as being original. They are a tough nut to crack. While I admit there is more than likely some variation to these, I have yet to see any variations that can be proven, through attribution, to be real. There were enameled reproductions made and they are "out there" floating around as "originals". Real ones are of a certain size, thickness, material, construction, curvature, and quality that the repos dont have. I was told that someone had sets made for the Marine Air Ground Museum years ago and he made many other sets for collectors that couldnt get there hands on the real deal. Some of these reproductions ended up in some pretty well known collections that have been sold off, and auctions (recently), and have fooled many people.

S/F,
Mike

#12 TLHSS

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 08:21 AM

I know of one version of these diamonds that I trust as being original. They are a tough nut to crack. While I admit there is more than likely some variation to these, I have yet to see any variations that can be proven, through attribution, to be real.


Mike,

Knowing that you've owned the real deal, what's your opinion of the one's posted in this topic, including the one that recently sold on Ebay?

Thanks ... Tim

#13 usmcaviator

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 09:29 AM

Mike,

Knowing that you've owned the real deal, what's your opinion of the one's posted in this topic, including the one that recently sold on Ebay?

Thanks ... Tim

Before I comment, I am looking at the diamonds, not the EGAs on them. What is rare is the enameled diamonds. The white one, I purchased, so that tells you what I think of it. The other three (red, yellow, white), I have no interest in purchasing. At least two of them match those made for the USMC museum years ago. The white one has some good traits, but I would need to see much better and clearer photos, it may be a variation from the ones I consider to be real. But again, I have yet to verify any other designs that can be associated through attribution, like in a lot of China Marine items all to one person. The repos can be seen here at http://www.northchin...es.com/id76.htm.

S/F,
Mike

#14 Alec

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 08:47 PM

Alec,
Are you referring to the EGA or the diamond? There is nothing common about China Marine diamonds.

S/F,
Mike



Hey Mike

Only refering to the fact that the white ones are more common, but not found very often. This unit was wearing this inignial longer than any of the others so more existed. They are still hard to find and as we all see cost a pretty penny.

would love an example for my collection.

#15 usmcaviator

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 10:16 AM

Hey Mike

Only refering to the fact that the white ones are more common, but not found very often. This unit was wearing this inignial longer than any of the others so more existed. They are still hard to find and as we all see cost a pretty penny.

would love an example for my collection.

Alec,

Copy. I really dont know how to gauge which ones are "more common". I have two yellows and now two whites, I have seen one other yellow. That is in about 15 years of collecting. I dont know if that is any indication of what is out there or likelihood of how common one color is over the other. Where did you get the info about the white ones being around longer? Is that info from Fred?

S/F,
Mike

#16 Alec

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 10:53 AM

Alec,

Copy. I really dont know how to gauge which ones are "more common". I have two yellows and now two whites, I have seen one other yellow. That is in about 15 years of collecting. I dont know if that is any indication of what is out there or likelihood of how common one color is over the other. Where did you get the info about the white ones being around longer? Is that info from Fred?

S/F,
Mike



Yes info from Fred and photos with dates. I know of about 15 whites and 9 yellows in collections.

#17 williamsmilitaryrelics

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 11:17 AM

Guy's

Well if we are talking about "more common" or "more rare" about these China plate insignias, I will say that over my past 28 years of collecting/dealing with military memorabilia, I handle myself quiet a few of them and the only one I never had on hand is the green,
the most white and yellow, 2 red and 1 blue...
So based on my experience, I can say the green one are hard to come by...
Since, the post is also about my other 3 insignias, I will clarify a few things,
So far the size, weight and shape (also the provenance) look totally legit, the Ega's are out of the question, they are all good and the officer is one of a kind Chinese made...
I'm perfectly aware of the repro set and I also had them on hand few years ago, they are lighter (finer), little bit smaller and without the tiny hole but I did have some original one without the hole too, the repro are easy to spot if you ever had any original on hand yourself...
I'm still working carefully about these 3 I've just got, and I can assure you, If I have any doubt about it, I will sell them as what it is, for fare I'm 90% sure they are legit.
I will acquire a new camera this coming week for better close up and will update my web.
One thing I learned quickly in this business (or hobby) it's that there is no such people so called "expert", you may know a subject very well but in one point, something will pop out of the woodwork and re-question the all collectible community...and hopefully yourself...
So, let me just keep going on my investigation and see what I'll find.
Thanks to all
Happy collecting! :lol:
Will

Edited by williamsmilitaryrelics, 04 September 2011 - 11:21 AM.


#18 Shanghai Jack

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 11:53 AM

I'm looking forward to seeing better photographs of Will's other Diamonds. Particularly the Chinese markings on the Company D badge.

Posted Image

#19 Dirk

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 11:59 AM

I think someone has stuck a Chinese coin in front of the roller

#20 TLHSS

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 12:05 PM

Interesting comments on the "green ones" ...

Mike's link is a very good one listed above ... none of the vet's interviewed had ever recalled seeing a "green one" ...

Interesting topic ... Tim

#21 usmcaviator

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 12:08 PM

William,
Great add, and I feel you are spot on with your comments. I do admit that I only know what I know based off of handling known specimens from attributed lots. So far those all match the one I just bought from you. That is the only type I trust. I do believe that there had to be more than one maker on the diamonds over the China years, and possibly some variation. I would like to see better pictures of yours three others, especially side views showingthe thickness and the curve, and close clear pictures of the enamel.

Here is an interesting note. I purchased a dark blue one from the 2nd to last recent FJP Auction. I sent it back. It lacked age, the enamel was perfect, the back appeared to have signs of chemical aging, the diamond was a different size in dimension, it lacked thickness, displayed a different curvature, and had no anti-torque/anti-spin hole for the EGA. The consignee was upset that I dare question it. He contacted me, and swore by the piece because it came from a "well known" collection that was sold when the collection's owner died (this collection encompassed a lot of China Marine pieces and many lots handled by FJP). I happen to know of this collection intimately, and have some insight as to the owner's connection with a fellow named Charlie Bisch, who made enameled diamonds for the USMC Museum in maybe the 1970's-1980's. Bisch and the collection's owner were apparently buddies during WW2. It is my opinion that this well known China collection had a number of these repo diamonds in them (the consignee stated he had many more identical ones of different colors and that he had sold them over the past few years at the Show of Shows). It is also my speculation that Bisch made extra sets for those he knew in the China Marine Association. I think that many of these repo ones are sitting in collections as being real because they came from China Marines, but were acquired at a much later time.

S/F,
Mike

#22 USMCRECON

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 06:03 AM

Great follow-up, Mike! You certainly make very good points!

#23 Alec

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 08:51 AM

Mike is correct about extra sets being made. This is posing problems quite a bit now. Without real provenance just coming from someones collection is not good enough.

#24 williamsmilitaryrelics

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 04:05 PM

Thanks Mike for the info, Like I said, I handle the repros in the past and they are quiet different, lighter, finer etc... but for someone who never did, I have to admit that's very hard to figure it out, the real one are made of brass (heavy) and are about 1.5 mm thick, the repro I saw are made of steel chrome plated (light) and the enamel is like a resin type base who doesn't crack the same way as the real (ceramic) enamel but once again, you should know what to look for as fare as authentication.
Hopefully...Mike will do a nice chapter about it in his coming book... :lol:
As we already said, there is nothing "common" about these Chinese plates, they are hard to find... well, even the repro are hard to get!
Now, the 3 plates I had where good, the red one had a tiny difference on weight...4gr, that's all.. I already sold them but I kept the officer EGA from the yellow plate, My customer was interested about the plates more then the EGA's.
I did some great pictures today (finally got a new cam this morning) and I will start another topic for this Chinese Jewelry made piece.
Thank you
Will

#25 usmcaviator

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 05:04 PM

Will,
I was hoping you would post some more detailed photos that showed a side view and the enamel of your three other plates? Thanks.

Mike


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