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MICH/ACH Question


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#26 Sabrejet

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 01:47 PM

Ian,
I am also at work and can't get to my references, but I think MICH stands for Modular Integrated Communications Helmet and is only called that when it has all the doo-dads for the SF communications systems, otherwise, it is a ACH or Advanced Combat Helmet.
Along with what Hoovie said, the only people that use the term MICH or MICH-Gallet, TC-2000, or anything other than ACH are the collectors. Go to a supply guy and ask for a MICH-Gallet and he will probably hand you a paper bag of dog crap.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

#27 Longbranch

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:30 PM

I will keep my mouth shut :blink: I routinely find them for $60 to $70 and they are real helmets. Many people in the surplus market don't know the difference between ACH and PASGT, to them they are all "Kevlar" helmets. Keep your eyes open and you will find them for good prices. I personally wouldn't pay over $100 for an ACH now unless it was brand new, never worn. and then I wouldn't pay over $125 for it. And, unless "Salty" was handed to you by the vet with provenance, I wouldn't trust those either. I walked into a surplus store about a year ago and the owner was taking an old helmet cover, sewing and old removed set of SSI on the cover right there in front of me and Viola, "Combat worn".


Yup, it is WAY to easy to fake salty, battle-worn helmets from "desirable" units. The 101st Airborne helmets are a good example. You can pick up the helmet patches for basically any 101st Airborne unit on Ebay, cost is about $20. Pick up a used cover, sew them together, wash it a couple of times, put it on a used shell with a named helmet band and worn NVG mount, and SURPRISE, you have an original 101st ACH helmet. However, sometimes the covers are so salty and soiled that they seem to be formed against the shell like papier mache, which is kinda hard to fake.

Painted helmets are a BIG problem too. Even with expensive military issue items, don't believe it's automatically an all original helmet. The airsoft crowd has TONS people willing to spend the bucks for original equipment, even stuff the special forces units use. I'm talking high end NVG mounts (Wilcox and Norotos), communications gear, helmet shells (TC-2001, TC-2002 "gunfighter", etc.), and on and on. They'll buy this stuff new, paint it up using photographic evidence of real special forces operators, all in an effort to create an accurate "impression". Anyone interested in acquiring ACH and other modern issue Kevlar helmets (especially those related to the Special Forces) should read up at websites like gearsoc.com and other sites dealing with airsoft gear... it'll really open up your eyes about how much money and effort these guys go through for their impressions. The stuff they use now will be a BIG problem in the future.

MICH and ACH are basically the same thing... alot of guys in service still refer to these as MICH helmets. The helmets with the big cutouts are often referred to as TC-2001, and the helmets with the small cutout (but still largely resembling a MICH/ACH) are referred to as the TC-2002 or "gunfighter". The standard MICH/ACH is the TC-2000.

One thing to be aware of is that there is a manufacturer of ACH helmets that has been recalled. They made about 5-10% of the ACH helmets, and use the company name of Rabintex or ArmorSource. Whether they become worthless due to the recall, or more valuable due to the low production, is something we'll have to see develop.

I have paid over $100 for three ACH helmets, but all have been camo painted or patched, and all with good provenance (or good deals because of other stuff included with the helmet).

Edited by Longbranch, 25 August 2011 - 02:33 PM.


#28 hawkdriver

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:34 PM

MICH and ACH are basically the same thing... alot of guys in service still refer to these as MICH helmets. The helmets with the big cutouts are often referred to as TC-2001, and the helmets with the small cutout (but still largely resembling a MICH/ACH) are referred to as the TC-2002 or "gunfighter". The standard MICH/ACH is the TC-2000.


Longbranch, clarify, you have actually heard Joe refer to his helmet as a TC-2001? "Hey, will you hand me my TC-2001.... no, not the TC-2002, my TC-2001 is sitting next to the gunfighter helmet" :lol:

As for the MICH and ACH, the MICH is an ACH with the comms equipment attached to it. I picked up a TM for the ACH today and just went through it, every page and couldn't find reference to MICH in the entire book.

If you want to talk faked helmets that will scare the SF collecting community in years to come, go spend a night surfing this thread at AR15.com Almost all of these helmets are hand made outside the military community.
http://www.ar15.com/...your_pics_.html

#29 OEF COLLECTOR

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:45 PM

It's very easy to mount. All you need is a screwdriver. I've seen mounts for sale without the screw. I would suggest buying a mount that comes with a screw because the screws are hard to find.



This is a mint/unissued example I bought here in the UK last month. If I was to obtain a a USGI night-vision mount, would it be supplied with the appropriate fixtures to attach it to the helmet? How easy / difficult a job is it?

Sabrejet



#30 Longbranch

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 08:15 PM

Longbranch, clarify, you have actually heard Joe refer to his helmet as a TC-2001? "Hey, will you hand me my TC-2001.... no, not the TC-2002, my TC-2001 is sitting next to the gunfighter helmet" :lol:

As for the MICH and ACH, the MICH is an ACH with the comms equipment attached to it. I picked up a TM for the ACH today and just went through it, every page and couldn't find reference to MICH in the entire book.

If you want to talk faked helmets that will scare the SF collecting community in years to come, go spend a night surfing this thread at AR15.com Almost all of these helmets are hand made outside the military community.
http://www.ar15.com/...your_pics_.html


LOL. Well, to clarify, no, I have NEVER heard someone in the service refer to these helmets by their model names (TC-2000, TC-2001, etc.). These names or definitely labels that are used by us dorky collectors (and the airsofters as well). Almost always, they are just referred to as a "kevlar" in the service, and occasionally I do hear some guys call them MICH helmets. It's also wise to remember that the TC-XXXX model names are the model names for helmets from MSA-Gallet. Pretty much every manufacturer has their own model name for ACH/MICH type helmets and their derivatives. For instance, the MSA ACH helmets are the TC-2000, Specialty Defense called theirs the "Warrior", and the Rabintex version is the R-ACH. The list goes on.

Your link is a good example of why you should be careful buying these helmets, as a lot of non-military guys are putting these things together, and doing a REALLY good job. I've also seen other sites where the guys search the internet for pics of Rangers, MARSOC & Seals personnel, Special Forces groups, and other elite units and configure/paint their helmets to match EXACTLY. They'll even blow $500 on a fancy helmet mount, $300-$400 for the correct MSA-Sordin headset, and the list goes on. Believe it or not, airsofters tend to look down upon the Chinese plastic helmet copies, preferring to pony up the money for the real thing, and they'll find a surplus or brand-new ACH/MICH, TC-2001, "Gunfighter", etc. to build up their "look". In their defense, though they copy military personnel, they tend to police one another about wearing patches and badges they didn't earn. If they see a guy sporting a Ranger tab or Combat Action Badge they didn't earn in the military, they will humiliate the guy till he takes it off. So, you can't be TOO hard on 'em... they like the gear, we like the history behind the gear. To each their own.

Still, be cautious with fancy painted lids with all the cool accessories!

#31 solsys

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 10:13 PM

The only guys who will use the term "MICH" or the model numbers are SOF guys. Only a few units were actually fielded the TC 2011 and later 2002 models but lots of small unit elements at the ODA and Platoon level purchased them for use as well as individual troops.

#32 Sabrejet

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 11:14 PM

My ACH shell is finished in the same basic grey shade as the ACU....and roughly textured. Were ACHs produced in any other colour variants?

#33 Sabrejet

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 02:43 AM

Currently listed on eBay/UK. A good deal for someone?

# 400237957256

#34 1canpara

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 07:39 AM

@ 1canpara / Rick. You mentioned the suspension being different from the old PASGT and you'd be right! It comprises of soft removeable pads which attach to velcro anchor points within the helmet. Like the PASGT, these ACH helmets are also sized.



Ian



Thanks Ian, that photo is very descriptive of the differences between the two. It actually looks like it would be quite comfortable, although maybe not so much in 120 F heat in the deserts of A-Stan....

Cheers Ian,

Rick

#35 Sabrejet

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 07:45 AM

You're welcome Rick. I've tried it on (naturally!) and must say it does feel very comfortable...snug and stable. That said, it was in the comfort of my own home in equable temperatures and with no-one shooting at me! I 'd venture to suggest that it's much more comfortable to wear than the old PASGT. Maybe some of our ex and serving GIs could voice their opinions?

Ian

#36 HoovieDude

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:39 AM

A good little link for some reading on them....

http://www.olive-dra..._ach_helmet.php

And Ian, they are much more comfy than the old Kpots!! And the initial runs were produced in OD, I've seen some in Tan, and of course the "foilage green" which is really gray once the UCP was adopted.

Btw, in the link above, the image of a guy pointing to the strike in his lid, was one of my Privates. Makes me feel old to see him as a Staff Sergeant! Keenan is his name.

#37 Sabrejet

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:50 AM

Thanks for the link and insight Hoovie. Interesting to see the woodland cover...must've been a prototype because BDUs were obsolete by the time of the ACH's adoption...weren't they? Another thing which intrigues me. These are current issue helmets...right? So how come they are quite readily available for purchase on eBay, and I'm talking genuine USGI versions, not airsoft look-alikes?! Surely they aren't declared surplus yet?

Ian :think:

#38 HoovieDude

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:58 AM

Ian, they were being issued before the switch to the new camo pattern, When I had mine issued, it came with a reversable desert/woodland cover by MSA. Most units weren't getting them issued early on until they were in the pre-deployment mode where they were also issued all the newer kit, etc under what is called the RFI, or Rapid Field Initiative. Most bases were still issuing out the old Kpots and older kit like the LBE and flak vests to incoming soldiers for training purposes until a unit later had the orders to deploy. Now of course, they are issued in to individuals arriving instead of to whole units in my understanding. But then again, the RFI systen is still in place, to issue the multi-cam uniforms and kit to departing units for A'stan too.

I have a pic of my crew in late 06, and you could tell right away who had been deployed vs the newer troops by their helmet type, lol.

As far as how they are found.. well, the same way it has always been. Joe selling off his kit and shady efforts from others, etc..

Edited by HoovieDude, 26 August 2011 - 09:00 AM.


#39 Sabrejet

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:05 AM

Ian, they were being issued before the switch to the new camo pattern, When I had mine issued, it came with a reversable desert/woodland cover by MSA. Most units weren't getting them issued early on until they were in the pre-deployment mode where they were also issued all the newer kit, etc under what is called the RFI, or Rapid Field Initiative. Most bases were still issuing out the old Kpots and older kit like the LBE and flak vests to incoming soldiers for training purposes until a unit later had the orders to deploy. Now of course, they are issued in to individuals arriving instead of to whole units in my understanding. But then again, the RFI systen is still in place, to issue the multi-cam uniforms and kit to departing units for A'stan too.

I have a pic of my crew in late 06, and you could tell right away who had been deployed vs the newer troops by their helmet type, lol.

As far as how they are found.. well, the same way it has always been. Joe selling off his kit and shady efforts from others, etc..


I bought mine off a militaria dealer at this summer's "War & Peace" show...it's a minter by Gentex. I notice that most of the other minters currently listed are also by Gentex. Are they the sole government contractors....or did a shipment "go astray"?! :think:

#40 HoovieDude

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:42 AM

Ian, good question and I don't have an answer. It would depend on the contract with the government and whether or not there are exclusive agreements. Many manufactures of various items often have policies where they only sell to certain clientele like military and LEO individuals and agencies.

#41 HoovieDude

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 09:45 AM

And I forgot to add in the US laws under ITAR and whats is required for export. So I dont have a solid answer.

#42 The Meatcan

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 01:18 PM

Thanks Ian, that photo is very descriptive of the differences between the two. It actually looks like it would be quite comfortable, although maybe not so much in 120 F heat in the deserts of A-Stan....

Cheers Ian,

Rick

the interior of that helmet really reminds me of the padding found in a football helmet. Is the padding similar in construction and material to what you'd find in a current football helmet?
Terry

#43 joefriday22

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 05:14 PM

Ian, they were being issued before the switch to the new camo pattern, When I had mine issued, it came with a reversable desert/woodland cover by MSA.


OD color ACH with reversable desert/woodland cover by MSA:

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o74/joefriday22/ACH1.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o74/joefriday22/ACH2.jpg

Rob

Edited by joefriday22, 26 August 2011 - 05:15 PM.



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