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USAF Obselete Rank?? Six Stripes on the Bottom


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#1 1917enfield

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 03:39 PM

Just want to verify the rank.

EDIT: Picture is lost


Edited by cutiger83, 27 May 2014 - 06:32 PM.
Updating dead photo links 5/27/14


#2 Bob Hudson

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 03:50 PM

I believe that's the old style master sergeant with the 1st sergeant duty diamond.

#3 Old B-1

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 05:06 PM

Correct!
MSgt, First Shirt.

#4 Wailuna

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 05:10 PM

And here's one on the hoof ca. 1955:

USAF_1st_Sgt.jpg



#5 Mark1

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Posted 20 August 2011 - 07:11 PM

The chevron is a E-7 First sergeant. It was worn from the 1950's to 1991 when it was changed, the USAF removed the bottom strip and added it to the top and the diamond became part of the chevron.


Mark

#6 patches

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 12:50 AM

Just want to verify the rank.

http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt228/mkgarms/USAF%20Uniform/USAF003.jpg


With the introduction of the two new supergrades in 1958, the 1st sgt more often than not would be the new E-8 grade, the lozenge was made specificaly to be sewn above the master sergeant rank, when a M/SGT no longer had this command slot. the lozenge would be removed. After 1958 the same thing applyed to the new rank of senior master sergeant, it was sewn dead center on the field of the upper portion of the patch below the top chevron and above the bottom ones, it was removed when the man no longer held the position of 1st sgt. Master sergeants E-7 during this period up to the present day still could be appointed 1st sgt, as we see here in the original photo posted the chevrons are merrowed egde, meaning the jacket in question was worn sometime after late 1968 on.

#7 Sabrejet

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 01:18 AM

Patches....are you an insomniac or just an early riser?!

Ian ;)

#8 coolcav20

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 05:38 AM

Very interesting chevron. I have never come across anything quite like it.

#9 patches

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 11:55 AM

Patches....are you an insomniac or just an early riser?!

Ian ;)


:dunno: i lose track of time on the forum. :D

#10 Lee Ragan

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 12:23 PM

Back in the late 60's, a Tech Sergeant (E-6) could be made a First Sergeant. I knew a couple of them and our squadron had one for a time. Yes, they did wear the diamond.

#11 Wailuna

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 02:13 PM

...Back in the late 60's, a Tech Sergeant (E-6) could be made a First Sergeant....

Found on Internet:

… In September 1954, Air Force Chief of Staff, General Nathan F. Twining, approved the use of the diamond device sewn above the chevron as the Air Force first sergeant insignia….

…The AFSC for First Sergeant began as 731X0 with ranks of E-6 or higher. In the late sixties, the AFSC changed to 10070 and 10090 and at the same time allowed new First Sergeants from any career field. April 1971 saw the deletion of Technical Sergeants (E-6) as First Sergeants except those who had been selected for E-7….


#12 1917enfield

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 03:43 PM

OK, so the answer is (First Sergeant)? Thanks guys. I added a pic of the medals on the uniform. I would like to repalce the ribbons missing as well. Seems where the pins were at (broken off) I lost the 2 ribbons. This is how I found it.

I'll need more help on that as well. I'll post that in the correct topic.

EDIT: Pictures are lost


Edited by cutiger83, 27 May 2014 - 06:33 PM.
Updating dead photo links 5/27/14


#13 Old B-1

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 04:27 PM

The top medal was probably the AF Commendation.
The missing one from the bottom may be Armed Forces Reserve Medal.
I'm just guessing --- Rick (Old B-1)

#14 Mark1

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 09:21 PM

The top medal was probably the AF Commendation.
The missing one from the bottom may be Armed Forces Reserve Medal.
I'm just guessing --- Rick (Old B-1)


I think it could be the Air Force Commendation Ribbon and move the NCO Professional Military Education Graduate Ribbon over to the missing place and add a Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon. (because of the Basic Security Police Occupational Badge). I think the 1st Sergeant served from 1971 to 1987 or 1972 to 1988 with the setup of the occupational badges and ribbons. (because the Republic of Vietnam Campaign Ribbon criteria is six mouths between 1961 - 1973 and the Senior Administration Occupational badge was authorized in 1987). The Vietnam Service Ribbon would have been for the campaign Vietnam Ceasefire.

Mark

#15 patches

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 11:20 PM

Back in the late 60's, a Tech Sergeant (E-6) could be made a First Sergeant. I knew a couple of them and our squadron had one for a time. Yes, they did wear the diamond.


Yes indeed it was so in the AF, though the only time a staff sergeant would be appointed 1st sgt in the army or marine corps would of course be in wartime in a combat arms unit in periods of extreme heavy combat when he would find himself as the senior ranking NCO within his company, all the other NCOs being dead or wounded, but here it would be for as long as it takes before a replacement in the approprate rank can be sent out to take over, this happing in WWII, korea and vietnam. In the army as well as the marine corps in peace time many sergeants first class are appointed 1st sgt, but here it is only as acting 1st sgt, they do not remove there SFC insignia neither on their collars or their sleeves on the class A.

M/sgts in the army have on many occasions taken over companys as top, here they will switch insignia IF the new assignment is to be a permanate one, in the army and marine corps at least, M/SGT and 1st SGT are both E-8s and are an interchangeable grade. I have a interresting story in this reguard. In the early spring of 1982 in the A co 4th battalon 9th infantry are old top left for another assignment,his place taken by a M/SGt from HQ co, this is where M/SGts are found in HQ units, he was a black NCO,are old top also a black long serving soldier, the M/sgt was a 1st cav combat inf vet. In the first flield problem he went on as the new top, he apparantly suffered a series of FLASHBACKS and literally had a nervious break down and had to be MED-EVACED, it was incredible, the boys in HQ platoon witnessed it all, they said it was if he was back in vietnam, giving orders to non exsiting men, calling them by name, asking for setreps from patrols that where not out, repetly calling our Co and exec by differant names, it blew all our minds in the line platoons when we heard about it, he was taken out by bird after he collapsed shaking and muttering, i and the rest of the guys never seen him again, i and the other thoughtfull guys in my platoon wondered what the hell happened there none of us thought ill of him,it was just wild that something could happen like this all these years later, rumours of course where rife, one of which was that he had had these episodes before in differant units all through the 70s, but was a very good soldier so he was just not givin any leadership positions and became a very able administrator, also when he was told he was taking over alpha he told his wife that he din't want to do it but then changed his mind and said yes, the CMSM apparanty knew about his problems in the past as it must have been in his files but gave him a chance.

No one ever found out what happed to him in nam, one story was that he was a platoon sgt the 2nd of 12th cav when it got blasted during the reinforcement of hue during the tet offensive, the so called lost battalion, no one ever found out, i don't even recall his name at the moment i bet it will come back in a flash one day, these things normally do for me, but that incident about are new top, was just one of many memories i always remember during my time in the sevice.

#16 Justin B.

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 09:50 AM

The chevron is a E-7 First sergeant. It was worn from the 1950's to 1991 when it was changed, the USAF removed the bottom strip and added it to the top and the diamond became part of the chevron.
Mark


I know approval for the new E-7/-8/-9 stripes was in 1991, but does anyone know a firm phase-out date for the old stripes? I have perused Airman magazine 1991-1993 with no luck, or else I missed it.

Thanks,
Justin B.

#17 elbertson

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Posted 22 August 2011 - 01:16 PM

And here's one on the hoof ca. 1955:

USAF_1st_Sgt.jpg

Love that beer label lampshade...looks like the Col. was a big fan of San Miguel. Don't blame him, drained my fair share of them myself.


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