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Viking Ship Patch


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#1 Joe Kravets

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 06:16 PM

I know I have seen this patch before but I can't place it. Either on here or in a military trader article, I have searched this and other forums and googled it. It is driving me nuts so I hope you guys can help. Maybe its not even U.S.?

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/wigfish/vikingshippatch-1.jpg

#2 scottplen

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 06:18 PM

I think its British troops in norway or something like that?

#3 gwb123

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 06:26 PM

I know I have seen this patch before but I can't place it. Either on here or in a military trader article, I have searched this and other forums and googled it. It is driving me nuts so I hope you guys can help. Maybe its not even U.S.?

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/wigfish/vikingshippatch-1.jpg



It's the right size, shape and design for a British Formation sign. Of course, it could be from a Nordic country as well. I doubt that this is for a US unit.

#4 doyler

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 06:40 PM

It is the Norway patch....pretty rare

#5 Joe Kravets

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 07:47 PM

It is the Norway patch....pretty rare


Yes that is it!! Thanks guys now I can sleep. :thumbsup:

#6 patches

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 11:28 PM

Yes that is it!! Thanks guys now I can sleep. :thumbsup:

IT is a post war british overseas command, title british troops in norway, the one you have there posted will be for the right upper arm, british army wore patches on both the shoulders, here the right side patch the ship will be facing the front, its sister patch will be reversed so when on the left shoulder it will be facing the front.

#7 mortaydc60

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 09:00 AM

IT is a post war british overseas command, title british troops in norway, the one you have there posted will be for the right upper arm, british army wore patches on both the shoulders, here the right side patch the ship will be facing the front, its sister patch will be reversed so when on the left shoulder it will be facing the front.



Hi Patches,

Curious as to why you say this is post war? I was always under the impression that the first issue of any British formation sign insignia is a printed version, so as to keep the needed cloth for other more important uses and to keep down the costs for the cash strapped nation during wartime. Mort

#8 Garth Thompson

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 09:08 AM

IT is a post war british overseas command, title british troops in norway, the one you have there posted will be for the right upper arm, british army wore patches on both the shoulders, here the right side patch the ship will be facing the front, its sister patch will be reversed so when on the left shoulder it will be facing the front.

Actually it is a WW2 British formation sign (patch). British Troops in Norway was part of the Allied Liberation Force formed under the direction of SHAEF and composed of US, British and Norwegian forces. The allied force landed in Norway 09 May 1945. For a fuller description and list of the units involved see Howard Cole FORMATION BADGES OF WORLD WAR TWO page 108. This patch can be found on US uniforms worn by american troops who were part of the Allied Liberation Force.
Garth

Edited by Garth Thompson, 17 August 2011 - 09:09 AM.


#9 NorBn

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 10:24 AM

Actually it is a WW2 British formation sign (patch). British Troops in Norway was part of the Allied Liberation Force formed under the direction of SHAEF and composed of US, British and Norwegian forces. The allied force landed in Norway 09 May 1945. For a fuller description and list of the units involved see Howard Cole FORMATION BADGES OF WORLD WAR TWO page 108. This patch can be found on US uniforms worn by american troops who were part of the Allied Liberation Force.
Garth


This is the same information I have on this patch in the book on Norwegian shoulder patches and ranks in the Norwegian Armed Forces 1940-1997 and I have seen a picture of this patch on a US uniform, too bad I didn't save it.

#10 Allan H.

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 11:16 AM

Hi Patches,

Curious as to why you say this is post war? I was always under the impression that the first issue of any British formation sign insignia is a printed version, so as to keep the needed cloth for other more important uses and to keep down the costs for the cash strapped nation during wartime. Mort


Mort,
You are absolutely correct that the patch in question is indeed a wartime vintage "formation sign," which we Americans call a shoulder patch. As part of the austerity measures taken by the British War Ministry, insignia like shoulder titles and formation signs were directed to be manufactured in printed form on cloth rather than embroidered on wool felt.

American collectors who don't know any better need to be aware that there are a lot of printed fakes out there, and that they really need to know their stuff when dealing with the more expensive and rarer varieties of formation signs.

Allan

#11 erikofnorway

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 01:17 PM

Yes, this is the patch for British forces in Norway 1945. They wore one on each sleeve, with the ship sailing forward. There are two versions, a small and a large patch. It may be more correct to call it the patch for Allied Forces in Norway, since it was also used by other nations. Also used on the cover of teh book "Allied Forces in Norway" (1945).

It seems to have been relatively freely issued, also to non-British personell. The Defence Museum in Oslo has a US Navy pilots uniform that belonged to a Norwegian pilot in World War 2. That has the small version affixed to the sleeve, which was most likely done when he arrived back to Norway in 1945. I have also in my collection a US Army shirt issued to a non-combatant that has the large version of the patch on the sleeve.

I will post pictures of these uniforms later.

Erik

#12 doyler

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 01:36 PM

Yes, this is the patch for British forces in Norway 1945. They wore one on each sleeve, with the ship sailing forward. There are two versions, a small and a large patch. It may be more correct to call it the patch for Allied Forces in Norway, since it was also used by other nations. Also used on the cover of teh book "Allied Forces in Norway" (1945).

It seems to have been relatively freely issued, also to non-British personell. The Defence Museum in Oslo has a US Navy pilots uniform that belonged to a Norwegian pilot in World War 2. That has the small version affixed to the sleeve, which was most likely done when he arrived back to Norway in 1945. I have also in my collection a US Army shirt issued to a non-combatant that has the large version of the patch on the sleeve.

I will post pictures of these uniforms later.

Erik



Erik

Im glad you posted this.We had a local 99th vet who wore this patch on his uniform...not the standard 99th.He still called it the 99th.

RD

#13 erikofnorway

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 01:44 PM

Erik

Im glad you posted this.We had a local 99th vet who wore this patch on his uniform...not the standard 99th.He still called it the 99th.

RD


I have never seen 99ers wearing this patch. They wore exclusively the green bordered battalion patch and the 474th Regiment patch. The 99th patch was swapped with US flag for Armed Forces Day parade in Oslo. But sometimes they would have aquired these patches while in Norway and possibly sewn it on after they were discharged. I have also seen some other variations done post war by the vet themselves, so everything is possible.

I am very interested in knowing who your local 99th veteran is (was) as I can check him up against the rosters we have available. As of today there are 48 known 99ers still alive, and we are always trying to find more.

Erik

#14 doyler

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 01:52 PM

I have never seen 99ers wearing this patch. They wore exclusively the green bordered battalion patch and the 474th Regiment patch. The 99th patch was swapped with US flag for Armed Forces Day parade in Oslo. But sometimes they would have aquired these patches while in Norway and possibly sewn it on after they were discharged. I have also seen some other variations done post war by the vet themselves, so everything is possible.

I am very interested in knowing who your local 99th veteran is (was) as I can check him up against the rosters we have available. As of today there are 48 known 99ers still alive, and we are always trying to find more.

Erik



Never got his name.He was from Clarion Iowa.He lived there and I saw him in a vets parade a few years ago.He was wearing the uniform with patch.Spoke to him briefly but never got his name.

#15 erikofnorway

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 02:46 PM

Here is the US uniform I saw in the Norwegian Armed Forces Museum collection in Oslo. According to the curator, it had belonged to a Norwegian pilot during world war 2. I don't know what the ribbons are all for, but some may have been added post war or possibly be foreign? The viking ship patch is the small version.

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#16 erikofnorway

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 02:47 PM

Here is the patch.

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#17 erikofnorway

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 02:49 PM

From my own collection, a U.S. Army non combatant shirt. It was found by a local antique dealer wrapped around a sewing machine.

Erik

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Edited by erikofnorway, 17 August 2011 - 02:53 PM.


#18 erikofnorway

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 03:14 PM

The patch, which is the large version.

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#19 erikofnorway

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 03:25 PM

The front page of the book "The Allies in Norway" (1946)

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#20 patches

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 05:17 PM

Actually it is a WW2 British formation sign (patch). British Troops in Norway was part of the Allied Liberation Force formed under the direction of SHAEF and composed of US, British and Norwegian forces. The allied force landed in Norway 09 May 1945. For a fuller description and list of the units involved see Howard Cole FORMATION BADGES OF WORLD WAR TWO page 108. This patch can be found on US uniforms worn by american troops who were part of the Allied Liberation Force.
Garth

The patch is commonly associated with the post war period, i have no idea why just because a patch like this is a printed type that it will be only during the war, printed types where only a variation. for the sake of argument it will techicaly be a late war patch but its wear was in the immidiete post war period possiaby early summer of 1945 it was not designed and worn when the war in europe was in progress, and is as such where i spoted it in the guido rossigoli book army badges since 1945. i do not discount this book because it not new.

#21 Teamski

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 05:50 PM

The patch is commonly associated with the post war period, i have no idea why just because a patch like this is a printed type that it will be only during the war, printed types where only a variation. for the sake of argument it will techicaly be a late war patch but its wear was in the immidiete post war period possiaby early summer of 1945 it was not designed and worn when the war in europe was in progress, and is as such where i spoted it in the guido rossigoli book army badges since 1945. i do not discount this book because it not new.


Be aware that LARGE portion of the British Formation signs in his book were worn ONLY during WWII. He added the patches because they were not in the first volume. DO NOT go by his book when determining which patches were worn only after WWII!!!

-Ski

#22 erikofnorway

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 05:58 PM

In my opinion: They are post war patches the same way the 474th and the 99th Inf Btn patches are "post war". They were both issued to the troops late May 1945. Still considered wartime as they were designed and produced before 8th May 1945 for units that fought during World War 2. But only authorized for wear after 8th May 45.

Edited by erikofnorway, 17 August 2011 - 05:58 PM.


#23 Patchcollector

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 06:00 PM

Interesting thread! :thumbsup:

#24 patches

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 07:28 PM

Be aware that LARGE portion of the British Formation signs in his book were worn ONLY during WWII. He added the patches because they were not in the first volume. DO NOT go by his book when determining which patches were worn only after WWII!!!

-Ski

Thanks i understand,it does have some errors no doubt, but i have not much of a problem with these books i,ve been going by them since i first got them, i will not invalidate them, far to many members are so quick to dimiss referance sourses that seem to them to old or outdated, the fact of the matter is that these books are usefull and they should be used together with all referance materials, and in this way you can get a overall picture, and thus will be able to pin down insignia questions. I will say rosignoli did put up some, i know that the home commands in the book where worn in WWII also the AA command, the malaya command,when one reads the narrative he does to a degree touch on the war time patches and designations in putting up some of the WWII ones hes just indicating that these patches contiuned to be worn, these are all carryover units, like are own u.s. army units, those u.s. army patches in WWII in the main carried over, most up to the present day, the referance dos'nt stop with this book, how did i know these home commands where also worn in WWII ?, because i crossed referanced.Near the end of the war the british army was still in the process of creating many new patches for there overseas contingents, most if not all of them being worn after hostilties, they where not used when the war was in progress, with the earliest new designs being worn in the summer of 1945, i do not know when the british troops in norway patch came out, but as i said it is more associated with the immidiate post war british army, and no doubt continued to be worn for as long as england maintained a force there, this force was to my knowelege not a combat force, the british combat troops when in first thats for sure,and here they would not have been wearing the british troops in norway patch they where wearing their unit patches, one of which was the veteran 50th infantry division, they would be wearing their well know double T patch, the Tyne and Tees division as it was called, also an para element, the would be wearing their famous pegasis patches, all these british combat units when in because it was a given that norway would be handled by england as it was a british sphere of influence, these unit had too oversee the surrender of german armed forces all over norway.The u.s. sent only a regiment the 474th infantry they arrived in june, and was sent primarly because it had the old 99th infantry battalion as a componate,this battalion comprised of norwegian-american immirgrants second and first as well as recent ones as well as the sons of norwegian bussinessmen and norwegian consular personel residing in the u.s.. The war was of course still on with japan, but these patches, that are in the since 45 to include those that first where worn during the war where worn in the immidiate post war period up till the time that book came out.

#25 williamsmilitaryrelics

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:41 AM

Hi Guys
Just picked up a box of WWI/WWII patches yesterday, amoung them these two, apparently they are the same design as what you had posted but, they are made on felt with a green border, it look like a set for both shoulders, one is a bit bigger than the other.
Thx
Will

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Edited by williamsmilitaryrelics, 25 November 2012 - 04:43 AM.



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