NS Meyer Senior Balloon Pilot wings.

[rustywings]

Back of the 1930's Balloon Pilot with small STERLING stamp and indentation surrounding the Meyer shield.

[rustywings]

Close up view.

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Closer view.

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The wing in question is on top. A 1940's known period badge is below for comparison.

[bschwartz]

Russ,

 

Thanks as always for the educated opinion. However you might want to change your mind because if these turn out to be real I will fly to California and hug you. Ok, maybe that's a bit extreme but I would be pleasantly surprised. I have this wing in both a senior and basic balloon pilot so I would be pleasantly surprised if they are real. The fact that you got to hold Ron's wing before he sold it is a huge bonus. Sometimes pictures can be deceiving. I've just never seen an attributed Meyer wing (or any other Meyer wing prior to your post) with this indentation. It's always swayed me toward it being fake. The new evidence is very intriguing to say the least.

 

Thanks,

Bob

[bschwartz]

By the way I do want to point out that I posted Ron's wing just as another example of a wing with the indentation around the hallmark. It was never meant as a slam to Ron. I think he's a very highly educated collector and I have a lot of respect for him and his collection. Just want to make that clear.

[rustywings]

A few more images...

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Another...

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Top of both wings.

[pfrost]

Top of both wings.

 

IMHO, the thing about NS Meyer wings is that YOU have to decide for yourself if you like it or not. Outside of some of the more obvious restrikes a lot of these wings fall in the area of guess work and best estimates no matter what. Without any solid "scientific" evidence other than some comparison with wings that have come directly from the vets (and that likely only covers a fraction of the variations and exceptions that exist), I fear that ultimately we are then put in the situation of saying things like "Ron Burkey has one for sale that he says is good". Not to cast aspersions on Ron (who is as excellent a source of knowledge as they come and his opinions and experience ought to be weighed heavily), of course. Or saying "Russ, Art and Cliff all have known originals that are similar to mine".

 

Still, I suspect that even comparison with known wings can be problematic if someone wants to be cynical, because they restruck from the original dies. All in all, I would mostly agree with Russ, that these are pretty nice wings, but there will always be an element of doubt, sadly.

 

Thanks for sharing and I hope you don't mind my tossing in my 2 cents.

Patrick

[bschwartz]

Patrick,

 

Thanks for weighing in, your opinion is always welcome and much appreciated. I agree that with Meyer wings it's the old "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" syndrome and everybody has to make up their own mind about each and every wing since the waters are so muddied. Russ's strongest argument for me was showing the example with the small sterling mark. I have never seen that small mark used on a restrike. That was a very good sign for me to see. But in the end you hit the nail on the head that there will always be some doubt about these. I will say that after seeing Russ's wings I have a different feeling about these than I had just a few days ago. I appreciate everyone's insight.

 

Thanks,

Bob

[rustywings]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I think the more examples we look at, the better understanding we'll have. Here's a known 1970's Meyer restrike with the typical larger STERLING mark. I've never seen a restrike with the smaller STERLING stamp. Are there any other restrike examples out there?

[rustywings]

Comparing the smaller STERLING mark with the known larger restrike example.

[Paul S]

Does anyone know or recall how the Meyer restrikes were marketed...through what distribution channels?

 

I do recall guys in their 40s then, usually WWII veterans themselves being avid military collectors, esp. of German guns and Japanese swords. Gun shops were the center of that activity as I recall it.

 

PS

[5thwingmarty]

I just picked this one up, and it has gotten some mixed reviews.  It looks to have been from the same stamping as the non-senior Balloon Pilot wing Russ examined before Ron sold it, but it has the bigger star attached directly to the balloon without the stilts.  It is a heave die-struck wing with the cammed pin and no evidence of the pin being a replacement,

 

[pfrost]

There is a casting flaw on some of the fakes that have a small circle impression right where this circle is drawn.  Is that real or an artifact of the picture you took?

 

If it is there, I would be leery of the wing, but like all things Meyers its always what YOU want to believe not what the great unwashed thinks.  Plus you are as savvy as any collector I know.

 

 

[5thwingmarty]

There is a flaw in the area you circled, but there is a similar flaw in the wing Ron Burkey sold.  This might be a post war restrike, but it is definitely a die struck wing and not a cast copy. The star was also die struck and then soldiered to the base wing.

 

I bought this assuming it was a restrike, but was surprised when it arrived how good it looked.  My thought is if the wings Russ shared are legitimate 1930s to 1940s wings, then this one is too.

 

The next time Russ and his wings are together hopefully he can measure them to verify their span, but I can't imagine they are greater than 3-3/16".

[pfrost]

If you like them, then I like them.  I remember many years ago talking with Duncan Campbell and he mentioned something about this flaw on the front of a wing that he assumed was a casting flaw from where they poured the metal into the mold.  But I guess it is also possible that it was a die flaw in the original die that was exasperated when they started making the restrikes in the 80s.  I don't know.  There are things I like that make me think that this is neither a casting nor a restrike but that is just my uneducated opinion. 

 

Here is a aeronaut pilot badge for sale on one of the internet sites that is similar to yours (without the star).  It also looks to have the "smudge" in the wing tip--but everything else looks right.

 

He Who Shall Not be Named once told me (and I have to give him props for probably being spot on) that NS Meyers didn't actually make their badges (they were retailers not wholesalers or manufacturers). Instead they used many different jobbers that supplied products and so you see many variations (like hallmarks, placing, forcers (that impacted the backs) etc.  One could imagine that NS Meyers had commissioned a die, and when it became damaged (the die flaw) the simply retired it. Then many years later when they started restriking the balloon wings for collectors, the die flaw just got worse. We know that the restrikes were made from the same dies, so it is reasonable to assume that SOME of the wings out there are vintage. Thus, this could be a vintage wing and not a repop.  The other "tells" are good positive signs of that.

 

I am in NO WAY maligning Russ or Ron's wings, but we are all human.  I agree that they have probably forgot more than I will ever know, but sometimes mistakes are made!

 

Frankly, the more I look at this, the more I lean in your direction.  But its not important what I think, its your collection. But I wouldn't have ANY issues with them in my collection, such as that is worth.

 

P

[pfrost]

Then of course, you can compare to what is more than likely a restrike.  These are also clearly die struck, not castings.  But you can REALLY see the flaw on the front AND the other tells (wrong font and wrong pin/hinge).

 

The patina is also from a can (I suspect).

 

But there will always be people who will not like a NS Meyer wing.

[pfrost]

Interestingly enough, Russ as the OP asked if we could "date" these wings by the type of star used.  Perhaps we could use the relative severity of the die flaw as a way to age these wings. No flaw (earliest manufacture) large flaw (late restrike)?

[5thwingmarty]

The closest wing I have in hand to compare to is a Meyer Airship restrike.  Like the Sr. Balloon wing it only has an incised Meyer hallmark, but the hallmark on the Airship is about half the size.  The finishes are not the same, and the back edges of the Airship wing are polished down to where the striations are gone and there is no sharpness on the back edge like there is on the Sr. Balloon Pilot wing.  The pin on the Airship is cammed but it is not the same as it opens to almost 90 degrees while the Sr. Balloon only opens to between 30 and 45 degrees.

 

Also, I just saw that a wing that looks identical to this one just popped up on ebay for $449.99 opening bid.  That is NOT my wing listed for sale.