trubia26 Posted August 1, 2011 Share #1 Posted August 1, 2011 Hello! I have seen these rank badges in USN garrison caps, but never in WWII pictures...Do you know from when the petty officers can wear it in their caps?This one is silver..Looks like the image is no longer here. But this one is golden..Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted August 1, 2011 Share #2 Posted August 1, 2011 That came in around mid-2008. It was part of the new Service Uniform for E-1 through E-6. Petty officers (E-4, -5, -6) wear crow and chevrons rate insignia as shown. Those entitled to gold stripes on the rating badge wear gold chevrons in the device as in the second photo. In the second photo it is worn with the Winter Blue uniform, which has now been phased out I believe. In WW2, the only enlisted personnel who wore garrison caps were Chief Petty Officers and Officer Cooks/Stewards. CPOs wore miniature cap anchors on the garrison cap, steward branch wore the metal letters "U.S.N." Best regards, Justin B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trubia26 Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted August 1, 2011 Oh, thanks Justin! But I still don´t know the different between gold and silver use in these badges...sorry, I am afraid I did not understand very well what you explain me about the colour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted August 1, 2011 Share #4 Posted August 1, 2011 Oh, thanks Justin! But I still don´t know the different between gold and silver use in these badges...sorry, I am afraid I did not understand very well what you explain me about the colour... Ah, sorry. The normal petty officer rating badge for a blue (black) uniform has red stripes. If a petty officer accumulates 12 years of unbroken good conduct, they are entitled to gold stripes in place of red. The corpsman in the second photo above should have gold stripes on his sleeve to go with the cap badge, but perhaps hasn't sewn them on yet. These things happen. Saludos, mi amigo, Justin B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trubia26 Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted August 1, 2011 Ok, thanks! Now it´s clear as water! thanks again for share your knowledge! Un saludo para tí también, amigo mío! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trubia26 Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share #6 Posted August 3, 2011 Well...I was wondering...The first picture shows a silver badge(eagle and chevrons), the second a golden one... but I have seen one badge with the eagle in silver and the chevrons in gold...that means less than 12 years of good conduct??This is not gold or silver, but both! Looks like the image is no longer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted August 3, 2011 Share #7 Posted August 3, 2011 Well...I was wondering...The first picture shows a silver badge(eagle and chevrons), the second a golden one... but I have seen one badge with the eagle in silver and the chevrons in gold...that means less than 12 years of good conduct?? This is not gold or silver, but both! The eagle is always silver. The chevrons change to gold to show 12 years of good conduct. Steve Hesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trubia26 Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share #8 Posted August 3, 2011 Hello Steve! Really happy to see you!!Well, about the silver eagle...now I am really confused, because I have this badge and is entirely golden (the measure is about 1,4" x 1,2")...and I think is not a fake (it has markings)Looks like the images are no longer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted August 3, 2011 Share #9 Posted August 3, 2011 Hello Steve! Really happy to see you!!Well, about the silver eagle...now I am really confused, because I have this badge and is entirely golden (the measure is about 1,4" x 1,2")...and I think is not a fake (it has markings) That is a much older style from the late 1950s/1960s. It was NOT regulation and was commercialy made for wear on a working base ball style cap. It is all brass because that was how it was made. The Silver eagle badges came out in 1975 and were first for wear on the working utility cap. Originally, they were all silver. About 1980, they introduced the badges with gold chevrons as an option. The black garrison cap for E=6 and below was adopted in 1998 for wear with the old "Winter Working Blue" uniform, and since originally there was no cap badge, the eagle deivice from the utility cap was worn on this cap. The eagle badge in no longer worn on the utility cap as it is now a cammoflage pattern with a sew on patch. Steve Hesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topdcnut Posted August 3, 2011 Share #10 Posted August 3, 2011 The silver and gold devices did not come out until the mid to late 80's maybe even the early 90's .The all gold "brass" devices may not have been regulation but were worn as regulation as were the ones with the specialty in place of the eagle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trubia26 Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share #11 Posted August 3, 2011 That is a really interesting information...So my badge is an official "non official" badge... :think: Well, and now you are talking about black uniform...I think you told me that the black uniform was in use from 2008 to 2010 (I did not know that the black colour was introduced in Navy by caps in 1998 before the rest of the uniform in 2008)...and that black colour was called "Blue gabardine"...but I remember too that somewhere (maybe here) I read someone telling that in WWII many officers wore private black caps because they looked more pretty than the issue Blue navy caps (and they called that colour "gabardine" as well)...is that right??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvage Sailor Posted August 3, 2011 Share #12 Posted August 3, 2011 That is a much older style from the late 1950s/1960s. It was NOT regulation and was commercialy made for wear on a working base ball style cap. It is all brass because that was how it was made. The Silver eagle badges came out in 1975 and were first for wear on the working utility cap. Originally, they were all silver. About 1980, they introduced the badges with gold chevrons as an option. The black garrison cap for E=6 and below was adopted in 1998 for wear with the old "Winter Working Blue" uniform, and since originally there was no cap badge, the eagle deivice from the utility cap was worn on this cap. The eagle badge in no longer worn on the utility cap as it is now a cammoflage pattern with a sew on patch. Steve Hesson Yep, ditto what Steve said about the brass, silver & gold eagles worn on the (utility) ballcap. We also wore smaller subdued eagles on our OD greens but it was not consistent. Some wore the eagles on the collar, some wore a green 'crow' on their left arm & most of us wore no insignia at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trubia26 Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted August 3, 2011 Yep, ditto what Steve said about the brass, silver & gold eagles worn on the (utility) ballcap. Hello! Please to meet you!...about the all golden-brass eagle... you used in garrison caps too? (as the silver or de silver and gold) or just in utility ballcaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvage Sailor Posted August 4, 2011 Share #14 Posted August 4, 2011 Hello! Please to meet you!...about the all golden-brass eagle... you used in garrison caps too? (as the silver or de silver and gold) or just in utility ballcaps? The all golden-brass eagle as shown in the photo above was only worn on the utility ballcap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trubia26 Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share #15 Posted August 4, 2011 The all golden-brass eagle as shown in the photo above was only worn on the utility ballcap. Ok, just in utility ballcaps, thanks... by the way, Do you know if black "gabardine" colour was used by officers in their caps before 1998 as I think two post above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted August 4, 2011 Share #16 Posted August 4, 2011 Ok, just in utility ballcaps, thanks... by the way, Do you know if black "gabardine" colour was used by officers in their caps before 1998 as I think two post above? "Blue" garrison caps (look black) were authorized for commissioned, warrant and chief petty officers and officers' cooks/stewards in WW2 for wear with the Service Dress Blue uniform. Roughly 1943-1947, not sure on exact dates. Example: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/pers-us...-o/rh-okane.htm They were worn in the same manner as the khaki, gray, green and little-seen white garrison caps: Commissioned officers: Rank on right, miniature cap device on left. Commissioned WOs: Silver corps device on right, miniature cap device on left. Warrant officers: Gold corps devices both sides. Chief petty officers: Miniature cap anchor on left. Officer's cook/steward: Gold letters "U.S.N." on left. --Justin B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trubia26 Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share #17 Posted August 4, 2011 What a wonderful and complete information! Thank you very much!...I know a lot about US Army and USAAF/USAF uniforms, but now I am trying to learn all I can about US Navy uniforms, and thanks to people as you, guys, I am learning! But I think I am wrong talking about colours in here (this topics are for rank and rates, not for uniforms) so, if you don´t mind, I would like to post a topic in the right place to talk about the differents colours in US NAVY uniforms. I hope to post tomorrow and I wish to see you there...you don´t know how much I apreciate your help. Thanks to all of you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted August 4, 2011 Share #18 Posted August 4, 2011 "Blue" garrison caps (look black) were authorized for commissioned, warrant and chief petty officers and officers' cooks/stewards in WW2 for wear with the Service Dress Blue uniform. Roughly 1943-1947, not sure on exact dates. Example: http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/pers-us...-o/rh-okane.htm They were worn in the same manner as the khaki, gray, green and little-seen white garrison caps: Commissioned officers: Rank on right, miniature cap device on left. Commissioned WOs: Silver corps device on right, miniature cap device on left. Warrant officers: Gold corps devices both sides. Chief petty officers: Miniature cap anchor on left. Officer's cook/steward: Gold letters "U.S.N." on left. --Justin B. However, the black/Navy Blue garrison caps were dropped att he end of WW 2 and did not resurface until about 1998 for wear with the all black (black button up shirt and black front crease trousers (also worn with a black neck tie). The uniform it self was originally adopted in 1975 and worn with a a combination hat by all Sailors, then when the Navy returned to the traditional "Square Rig" jumper uniform in 1980, the hat for the black shirt and trouser uniform was a white Sailors hat (looked very stupid). In 1998, the black garrison cap was re adopted for wear with the black shirt and trouser uniform. Then in 2008, the black shirt was dropped for the khaki shirt. Steve Hesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trubia26 Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share #19 Posted August 6, 2011 However, the black/Navy Blue garrison caps were dropped att he end of WW 2 and did not resurface until about 1998 for wear with the all black (black button up shirt and black front crease trousers (also worn with a black neck tie). The uniform it self was originally adopted in 1975 and worn with a a combination hat by all Sailors, then when the Navy returned to the traditional "Square Rig" jumper uniform in 1980, the hat for the black shirt and trouser uniform was a white Sailors hat (looked very stupid). In 1998, the black garrison cap was re adopted for wear with the black shirt and trouser uniform. Then in 2008, the black shirt was dropped for the khaki shirt. Steve Hesson Ok, thanks a lot! Now I am going to post the topic I told you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Morris Posted September 6, 2011 Share #20 Posted September 6, 2011 Ah, sorry. The normal petty officer rating badge for a blue (black) uniform has red stripes. If a petty officer accumulates 12 years of unbroken good conduct, they are entitled to gold stripes in place of red. The corpsman in the second photo above should have gold stripes on his sleeve to go with the cap badge, but perhaps hasn't sewn them on yet. These things happen. Saludos, mi amigo, Justin B. I retired as a "gold striper" in 1992, and wore the Winter Working Blue ("Captain Midnight") uniform on a daily basis. The gold striped crow was not authorised for wear with that uniform, but was reserved for use with Service Dress Blue ("Cracker Jacks") for E-6 and below, and the CPO dress blue blouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted September 6, 2011 Share #21 Posted September 6, 2011 I retired as a "gold striper" in 1992, and wore the Winter Working Blue ("Captain Midnight") uniform on a daily basis. The gold striped crow was not authorised for wear with that uniform, but was reserved for use with Service Dress Blue ("Cracker Jacks") for E-6 and below, and the CPO dress blue blouse. You are absolutely correct. I hadn't noticed as the thread had been about the device on the hat. But true, the gold bullion sew on patch is only worn on the dress blue uniform. The black shirt was considered a working uniform. Steve Hesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Rally Posted September 6, 2011 Share #22 Posted September 6, 2011 You are absolutely correct. I hadn't noticed as the thread had been about the device on the hat. But true, the gold bullion sew on patch is only worn on the dress blue uniform. The black shirt was considered a working uniform. Steve Hesson Funny...I need to go through my photos from the 80s...but I distinctly recall some of the "old timer" E-6s wearing gold chevrons on their winter working blues (a.k.a "Johnny Cash" blues). It always seemed odd to have the gold chev'd crow on that shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted September 6, 2011 Share #23 Posted September 6, 2011 I could be off base but I thought "Winter Blue" with tie and ribbons was a service uniform, while "Winter Blue Working" with open collar and no ribbons was, of course, working. When I was in college a recruiter that used to come around a lot was an IC1 who wore a gold rating badge on the Winter Blue shirt. --Justin B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted September 6, 2011 Share #24 Posted September 6, 2011 Here's one I photographed at the Charlestown Naval Yard, Boston, Mass., last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted September 6, 2011 Share #25 Posted September 6, 2011 I could be off base but I thought "Winter Blue" with tie and ribbons was a service uniform, while "Winter Blue Working" with open collar and no ribbons was, of course, working. When I was in college a recruiter that used to come around a lot was an IC1 who wore a gold rating badge on the Winter Blue shirt. --Justin B. Weather or not some one wore a gold crow on the shirt or not, it was not authorized. The winter blue with tie was considered a service uniform, but not a dress uniform. As all that goes, I have seen guys including a Chief wearing gold crows on p-coats against regs. Just sayin' Steve Hesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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