Jump to content


Army Specialist 8 & 9 Insignia

Started by iamck94 , Jul 29 2011 09:54 AM

  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#21 KurtA

KurtA
  • Members
    • Member ID: 322
  • 4,966 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 October 2011 - 04:22 PM

I don't own that Spec 9 subdued patch. I found a picture of it on a website that had some Spec rank insignia. What you see in the photo is what I own in regards to Spec ranks; one pair of gold on green, cut edge, 1955 style ranks from Spec 4 to 9 each. And one pair gold on green, cut edge, 1958 style ranks from Spec 4 to 9 each.

The reason I ask is that I never saw any of these until relatively recently (primarily on Ebay). I'm trying to determine if they are original. Lots of repro subdued US Army chevrons out there. And they are very difficult to detect.

#22 iamck94

iamck94
  • Members
    • Member ID: 49,998
  • 108 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

Posted 08 October 2011 - 04:37 PM

Valid point. I think it would cost more to have a repro made, than the amount you can make off of it. Spec 8 and 9 ranks run about $20-$30, and I can't imagine that it costs less than that to make, at least not to the point where you are making much of a profit. Look at some of the ranks that were made in country in Vietnam, you can usually tell if they are fake. However, nowadays with all the technology, I guess that it is possible to get them made. However I just have a feeling that if it was easy to get Spec 8 and 9 ranks, we'd see a lot more gold on blue and gold on white spec 8 and 9 ranks. As for the subdued Spec 9 insignia, I still have no idea as to when the Spec 8 and 9 ranks were abolished, I know what the Army Institute of Heraldry says but I think that that subdued spec 9 rank is legitimate.

#23 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 11,461 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.

Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:05 PM

Valid point. I think it would cost more to have a repro made, than the amount you can make off of it. Spec 8 and 9 ranks run about $20-$30, and I can't imagine that it costs less than that to make, at least not to the point where you are making much of a profit. Look at some of the ranks that were made in country in Vietnam, you can usually tell if they are fake. However, nowadays with all the technology, I guess that it is possible to get them made. However I just have a feeling that if it was easy to get Spec 8 and 9 ranks, we'd see a lot more gold on blue and gold on white spec 8 and 9 ranks. As for the subdued Spec 9 insignia, I still have no idea as to when the Spec 8 and 9 ranks were abolished, I know what the Army Institute of Heraldry says but I think that that subdued spec 9 rank is legitimate.


I'll say that its a period made u.s. made subdued one as well, as from what I can see it has all the characteristics of this type which is the use of OD cotton sateen as well as the border which is like the type on u.s. made patches of all kinds. This subdued Spec 9 patch may have been made in late 1966 into 1967 by a manufacturer who simply made them because these ranks where still catogorized as being in the u.s.army rank structure despite them being no longer autherized, and where only made briefly. My experience with the subdued repros of this type is that they all seem to have a twill like background with very thin OD borders,when you have them in hand you can tell be the feel of them, A simple burn test on the thread of the background material of these will all ways burn poly.

Edited by patches, 08 October 2011 - 09:20 PM.


#24 KurtA

KurtA
  • Members
    • Member ID: 322
  • 4,966 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 October 2011 - 04:04 AM

A simple burn test on the thread of the background material of these will all ways burn poly.

Burn test for 1960's era patches??? Per your advice, I went through my collection of 1960's/Vietnam era patches and checked for any made of polyester/synthetic threads. I threw any such patches I found in the trash.
I no longer have a VN er patch collection. Bummer!

#25 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 11,461 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.

Posted 09 October 2011 - 08:49 AM

Burn test for 1960's era patches??? Per your advice, I went through my collection of 1960's/Vietnam era patches and checked for any made of polyester/synthetic threads. I threw any such patches I found in the trash.
I no longer have a VN er patch collection. Bummer!


I was talking about those subdued U.S. made sleeve rank patches, if they are orignial from the period of 1966 to 1968 they will be embroidered on OD cotton sateen or OD cotton twill, this is from where I removed a thread to burn, from the edge of the background cloth. The black threads used in the chevrons-rockers -specialist eagles ET-AL would be of rayon,if the border is OD thread same rayon. This naturally applies to most if not all the vietnamese types to include the shoulder patches in this type machine imbroidery on this type of cloth both U.S. and vietnamese made,also the qulification badges.The back or bobbin threads for the most part however will be the white poly/synthetic threads, this being in keeping with the use of this poly thread on the regular full color shoulder patches, enlistedmen sleeve rank insignia and qualification badges that where made during this period. As you said there are repros but from what I seen these are easy to spot. Where there ones made on a poly/synthentic background ? I would say no, they,re where however ones made I think in late 1968 into 1969 the had its background cloth made of that poly/cotton blend twill like material of the type that would eventually be used in making the officers and enlisted collar rank insignia and the qualification badges but since its a poly/cotton it will burn away slightly different from pure polyester thread.

Edited by patches, 09 October 2011 - 09:11 AM.


#26 iamck94

iamck94
  • Members
    • Member ID: 49,998
  • 108 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:11 PM

A single subdued Spec 9 recently went for $87.00 on eBay. I still wonder about the genuiness of subdued Spec 8 and 9.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...I...=true&rt=nc

Attached Images

  • Subdued_Spec_9__1_.jpg


#27 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 11,461 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.

Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:39 PM

LOOK OUT OLD IMACKI IS BACK ! where you been ? :D

#28 T-Bone

T-Bone
  • Members
    • Member ID: 5,772
  • 609 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hot Spring, Arkansas

Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:57 AM

And to think I was happy to find Spec 7 collars in subdued and gold. :thumbsup:

The upside was the subdued all came on the white plastic backing plates for working dress, I am guessing Hospital or Mess Hall.

Timo

#29 iamck94

iamck94
  • Members
    • Member ID: 49,998
  • 108 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:01 PM

LOOK OUT OLD IMACKI IS BACK ! where you been ? :D

Haha! Well I guess I just haven't had a lot of questions and I haven't been as active in collecting recently.

T-Bone would you mind posting a picture of the white backing. I've heard about those but never actually seen one.

#30 Steve B.

Steve B.
  • Members
    • Member ID: 9
  • 1,348 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:29 PM

The upside was the subdued all came on the white plastic backing plates for working dress, I am guessing Hospital or Mess Hall.


The white plastic backings were also worn with the overcoat, raincoat and optional purchase windbreaker before the gold colored insignia came out.

Sometimes instructors ("black hats") wore the white plastic backings on their hats to make the rank more visible. I also seem to recall them being worn on the locally authorized black berets as worn by the 11th ACR and others back in the 70s.

#31 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 11,461 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.

Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:23 PM

Haha! Well I guess I just haven't had a lot of questions and I haven't been as active in collecting recently.

T-Bone would you mind posting a picture of the white backing. I've heard about those but never actually seen one.


Do you want a pair of Spec 7s white backings for FREEE ?, I have a pair.

#32 T-Bone

T-Bone
  • Members
    • Member ID: 5,772
  • 609 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hot Spring, Arkansas

Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:19 AM

Haha! Well I guess I just haven't had a lot of questions and I haven't been as active in collecting recently.

T-Bone would you mind posting a picture of the white backing. I've heard about those but never actually seen one.

Here they are :thumbsup:



#33 T-Bone

T-Bone
  • Members
    • Member ID: 5,772
  • 609 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hot Spring, Arkansas

Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:21 AM

And the Gold version :ermm:

Was there ever a shoulder slide made for these?
MVC_003F.JPG

Edited by T-Bone, 27 February 2012 - 11:29 AM.


#34 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 11,461 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.

Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:45 AM

DOES ANY MEMBER WANT A PAIR OF THE WHITE BACKINGS FOR THE RANK OF SPECIALIST 7TH CLASS, FOR FREE-- FOR FREE--FOR FREE, NO CHARGE BUT FOR FREE, I have a pair that I do not want or need, take them of my hands.

#35 iamck94

iamck94
  • Members
    • Member ID: 49,998
  • 108 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:20 PM

T-Bone, no they did not make a shoulder slide for those. The shoulder slides didn't come into service until '79 when the AG415 shirt came in. They do exist for Spec 5 and 6, however not Spec 4 for some reason.

Patches, I have a shoebox full of various Specialist 4-9 rank insigina and I have never even seen these backings. I would like to add them to my collection if it is no hassle to you.

#36 atb

atb
  • Members
    • Member ID: 943
  • 2,884 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:East Coast

Posted 27 February 2012 - 04:10 PM

T-Bone, no they did not make a shoulder slide for those. The shoulder slides didn't come into service until '79 when the AG415 shirt came in. They do exist for Spec 5 and 6, however not Spec 4 for some reason.

Patches, I have a shoebox full of various Specialist 4-9 rank insigina and I have never even seen these backings. I would like to add them to my collection if it is no hassle to you.

That's because Sp4 and below did not wear shoulder marks (that is the Army nomenclature for the rank insignia that slide onto the shoulder loops). They wore the gold colored metal chevrons on the shirt collar.

The gold colored metal chevrons replaced the white plastic backings worn in combination with the black metal chevrons. It was around the mid-1970's, I think.

#37 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 11,461 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.

Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:23 PM

T-Bone, no they did not make a shoulder slide for those. The shoulder slides didn't come into service until '79 when the AG415 shirt came in. They do exist for Spec 5 and 6, however not Spec 4 for some reason.

Patches, I have a shoebox full of various Specialist 4-9 rank insigina and I have never even seen these backings. I would like to add them to my collection if it is no hassle to you.


Not at all send me a PM, with info, and I'll put them a regular envelope.

Edited by patches, 27 February 2012 - 08:24 PM.


#38 iamck94

iamck94
  • Members
    • Member ID: 49,998
  • 108 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:51 PM

That's because Sp4 and below did not wear shoulder marks (that is the Army nomenclature for the rank insignia that slide onto the shoulder loops). They wore the gold colored metal chevrons on the shirt collar.

The gold colored metal chevrons replaced the white plastic backings worn in combination with the black metal chevrons. It was around the mid-1970's, I think.

Right, I said that because I never knew as to why Spec 4 was the only Specialist rank to wear it on the collar.

#39 hardstripe

hardstripe
  • Members
    • Member ID: 60,620
  • 225 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fishers, Indiana

Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:49 PM

DOES ANY MEMBER WANT A PAIR OF THE WHITE BACKINGS FOR THE RANK OF SPECIALIST 7TH CLASS, FOR FREE-- FOR FREE--FOR FREE, NO CHARGE BUT FOR FREE, I have a pair that I do not want or need, take them of my hands.



I would love to have the dres what SPEC & if you still have them. Anthing you are looking for to trade? I have a box full of stuff I don't collect.

Hardstripe

#40 patches

patches
  • Members
    • Member ID: 34,986
  • 11,461 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens N.Y.

Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:34 PM

I would love to have the dres what SPEC & if you still have them. Anthing you are looking for to trade? I have a box full of stuff I don't collect.

Hardstripe


No trade, just pm me with you info on sending it to you. oh, they are for the Spec 7 subdued, one pair .


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


In Memory of Co-Founder GREG MILLS ROBINSON, a.k.a. "Marine-KaBar"
(February 17, 1949 - March 5, 2011)