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.30 Ammunition Crate


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#1 Johan Willaert

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 03:34 AM

While visiting the Beltring War & Peace Show I picked up this wooden Ammo Crate which was designed to hold four metal .30Cal ammo cans...
I have been on the lookout for one of these 'wrap-around' crates for a long time and my eye fell on this one at a stall of a British dealer.
Not having my references with me, and having seen only a handful of these, I wasn't sure at all if this was the genuine thing, as was the seller and other collectors who were with me. But since no-one knew if it was original WW2 and the price was very low, I decided to take it home.

It isn't exactly like the one posted on the Browning MGs website, so I'm hoping someone can clear this up...

Is it a WW2 variation? Or a post WW2 version or just a complete fake/repro...

All opinions appreciated, Thanks!!

Johan

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  • 30CalAmmoCrate_2.jpg
  • 30CalAmmoCrate_1.jpg

Edited by Johan Willaert, 24 July 2011 - 03:35 AM.


#2 Johan Willaert

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 03:35 AM

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#3 robinb

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 04:10 AM

It doesnt seem right to me. ".30 inch" is a British marking. US markings would read ".30 Cal.". And there is no such thing as M1909 Ball ammunition. The M1909 ammunition was a blank round, not a ball round. Also, the "Property of US Army" looks like it was stenciled onto the box, while the other markings were printed. In my opinion, the box was of British origin, then someone added the US Army markings to make it more sellable.

Edited by robinb, 24 July 2011 - 04:13 AM.


#4 General Apathy

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 05:02 AM

While visiting the Beltring War & Peace Show I picked up this wooden Ammo Crate which was designed to hold four metal .30Cal ammo cans...

It isn't exactly like the one posted on the Browning MGs website, so I'm hoping someone can clear this up...

Is it a WW2 variation? Or a post WW2 version or just a complete fake/repro...

All opinions appreciated, Thanks!!

Johan


Hi Johan, I just googled A225 Ball M1909 linked M1 and came up with several websites to research further, here's a couple of the options, try googling it yourself and see all the options.

As robin stated it shows the M1909 as a blank round along with other details.

best of luck ken



US military Toxics Release Inventory 2002 File
www.docstoc.com › Politics & History › US Government Reports1 Sep 2010 – If a April 2002 TRI-DDS 2001 System Documentation • 1-1 threshold is ... The various “on screen” reports link to one another to allow the user to quickly and ..... A181 CTG CAL .30 CARB BALL M1 .30 caliber cartridges-Blank 1305000075560 A225 CTG CAL .30 BLK M1909 .30 caliber cartridges-High pressure ...


Hazard Classification of United States Military Explosives and ...
www.scribd.com/.../Hazard-Classification-of-United-States-Military- ... - CachedSimilar
25 Sep 2010 – NOTE: The JHCS is a listing of items containing Hazard Class 1 materials. ..... 12 GAGE 3 IN RUBBER BALL; “N-L” CTG, 5.56MM FRANGIBLE LINKED CTG, .... CAL .30 CARBINE BALL M1 SNGL RD CTG, CAL .30 CARBINE BALL M1 CLPD CTG, ... 0.0033 0.0034 0.0035 0.0034 0.0008 0.0008 A224 A225 A230 A231 A232 A234 ...

Edited by General Apathy, 24 July 2011 - 05:14 AM.


#5 Johan Willaert

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 05:41 AM

Thanks Robin and Ken!

I'm starting to believe the crate may have seen military use inthe postwar period as I now recognise the long number to be an NSN (Nato Stock Number)

NSN 1305 21 116 9718

The 21 would be the country code, 21 being Canada...


The round 'BALL' symbol together with the 'LINK' symbol are also still in use by NATO countries today...

Edited by Johan Willaert, 24 July 2011 - 05:42 AM.


#6 skir

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Posted 24 July 2011 - 07:36 AM

Thanks Robin and Ken!

I'm starting to believe the crate may have seen military use inthe postwar period as I now recognise the long number to be an NSN (Nato Stock Number)

NSN 1305 21 116 9718

The 21 would be the country code, 21 being Canada...
The round 'BALL' symbol together with the 'LINK' symbol are also still in use by NATO countries today...

Johan,
You are correct, IVI is the Canada Govt. Mfg. ( marked on the side lot number).1943 dated. Nice Crate.
Rick

Edited by skir, 24 July 2011 - 07:37 AM.


#7 Johan Willaert

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 05:59 AM

Crate has been identified as being Canadian from the Vietnam War period (late 60s....)...

I guess you can't always be lucky... :lol:

#8 OLD RSM

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 07:58 AM

Crate has been identified as being Canadian from the Vietnam War period (late 60s....)...

I guess you can't always be lucky... :lol:


The Headstamp marking IVI came out 70's.still in use today
Cheers Gerry

#9 skir

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Posted 26 July 2011 - 05:04 PM

The Headstamp marking IVI came out 70's.still in use today
Cheers Gerry

Beg to differ but IVI has been making ammo since WWII, Have IVI 1943 dated 9mm in My collection in original 32rd boxes. Dont take My word for it, check out thier own web site(Industries Valcartier Inc.) or DIA publication 'SMALL CALIBER AMMUNITION IDENTIFICATION GUIDE' which shows example of 1960s dated IVI head stamps. As for the crate, I see LOT 43 IVI would that indicate 1943 mfg? For sure it is repack ammo but still a nice crate IMPO.
Rick

Edited by skir, 26 July 2011 - 05:28 PM.


#10 OLD RSM

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 05:51 PM

Beg to differ but IVI has been making ammo since WWII, Have IVI 1943 dated 9mm in My collection in original 32rd boxes. Dont take My word for it, check out thier own web site(Industries Valcartier Inc.) or DIA publication 'SMALL CALIBER AMMUNITION IDENTIFICATION GUIDE' which shows example of 1960s dated IVI head stamps. As for the crate, I see LOT 43 IVI would that indicate 1943 mfg? For sure it is repack ammo but still a nice crate IMPO.
Rick

Hi Rick
The ammo we got in the 60's was DA Dominion Arsonals owned by the Canadian Gov It was sold to IVI in the 70's All the ammo we got befor NATO was DI 303 and 9mm DA 303 and 30 cal DA can't remember 50 cal IVI may have made ammo during the war as a Privite Co. never see any before the 70's have to some work on thec subject.
Gerry

#11 Mk VII

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 05:31 AM

It's definitely been 'improved'. The symbol for blank is still on there, not the solid circle for ball (both of which are NATO era markings anyway). We had a lot of these IVI blanks here in the past.
I burnt one of these crates recently - didn't think anyone would want it.

#12 OLD RSM

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 04:40 PM

Hi Rick
The ammo we got in the 60's was DA Dominion Arsonals owned by the Canadian Gov It was sold to IVI in the 70's All the ammo we got befor NATO was DI 303 and 9mm DA 303 and 30 cal DA can't remember 50 cal IVI may have made ammo during the war as a Privite Co. never see any before the 70's have to some work on thec subject.
Gerry

HI Skir
I think you got IVI and DI mixed up.

WW2 US Army got 30.06 Ammo was mabe by Canadian Industries (Verdun) Head Stamp VC

IVI was formed as a corporation in 1967 specifically to purchase the Dominion Arsenals from the Canadian Government.

Cheerrs Gerry

#13 glenm

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:11 PM

If that's a 68 after the IVI on the crate, Johan, it's from 1968, same as all of the red-wadded IVI blank you find in abundance over here in the UK. These crates come with 4 of the CARDBOARD boxes for 250 rounds of linked blank, not the metal ammo cans.

Glen.

#14 OLD RSM

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:55 PM

Hi Guy's
After looking at the ammo crate it is LOT 43 IVI not mfg date.
Cheers Gerry


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