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"Roosevelt's SS"

Started by Skylighter , Oct 27 2007 11:02 PM

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#1 Skylighter

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 11:02 PM

Last week I showed these two patches to a 30th infantry division veteran and he came up with the story that there was another variant on the 30th infantry patch. Namely one with the letters SS inside, this because people said the 30th was presidents Roosevelt's own "SS" division. According to him only a few soldiers were able to get such a patch.
Are there any samples of this patch here on the forum? If so I would like to see them!

And another question, why has the left 30th patch shown on the picture a red border? Is it just a simple variation?
http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0471qe4.jpg

#2 AndrewA74

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 05:08 AM

Do you have pictures of the back and a closer picture of the "SS"?
Andrew

#3 Darktrooper

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 05:22 AM

Do you have pictures of the back and a closer picture of the "SS"?
Andrew



Andrew, he doesnt have the variant patch he's talking about.


This sounds like a play on the pre-WWII 45th Division patch

Edited by Darktrooper, 28 October 2007 - 05:34 AM.


#4 36-tex

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 05:26 AM

I think I have seen an "SS" type patch for the 30th. I think there is a 36th Division one someone on this forum showed me once. The red border is just a variation.

#5 AndrewA74

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 05:30 AM

...he doesnt have the variant patch he's talking about.
This sounds like a play on the pre-WWII 45th Division patch

Oops. I stand corrected.
Andrew

#6 88thcollector

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 05:42 AM

A NC dealer has one. It is priced in the thousands. Some people debate the authenticity of these but I don't have a clue.
As the FDR's SS was added to a standard patch, all one needs is skill and cotton thread.

#7 KurtA

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 06:51 AM

The SS verbiage was a hand embroidered add-on to a standard patch and there are originals out there. Make sure there is provenance before shelling out the big bucks, as it wouldn't be too difficult to fake up a standard patch.
Kurt

#8 mortaydc60

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 06:51 AM

The patch in question does exist and was recently sold at I believe the last SOS show to a well known collecter for under a thousand. When I saw the patch it looked like the ss was just added in most observers eyes but the display included a newspaper article about the patch and a soldier holding the patch. The debate at the show was is it worth that money for the two extra letters. Mort

#9 Skylighter

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 08:58 AM

No one with an example here on the forum?

#10 redone

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 09:42 AM

Last week I showed these two patches to a 30th infantry division veteran and he came up with the story that there was another variant on the 30th infantry patch. Namely one with the letters SS inside, this because people said the 30th was presidents Roosevelt's own "SS" division. According to him only a few soldiers were able to get such a patch.
Are there any samples of this patch here on the forum? If so I would like to see them!

And another question, why has the left 30th patch shown on the picture a red border? Is it just a simple variation?
http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn0471qe4.jpg


I found a FDR SS 30th Div patch in the pocket of a 30th Div Ike . I is a standard WWII cotton 30th Div patch. FDR & SS is hand sewn. I found online that nickname came from Hitler. I don't remember what they did to earn the name.

#11 GERMAN-PATCH-HUNTER

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 11:25 AM

I found a FDR SS 30th Div patch in the pocket of a 30th Div Ike . I is a standard WWII cotton 30th Div patch. FDR & SS is hand sewn. I found online that nickname came from Hitler. I don't remember what they did to earn the name.

please give us a pic of the patch
regards

#12 88thcollector

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 09:09 AM

please give us a pic of the patch
regards



The one I saw was $3,000 but it sounds like the one that sold at the show for less than a 1000 as it had newspaper articles also.

Steve

#13 vintageproductions

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 09:25 AM

If the one that is being mentioned from North Carolina is sewn to a Generals flag, that one is original. He bought this from us a couple of years ago. I can't remember the General's ( maybe McCown?) name but all the patches sewn on the flag followed his career from WWII through Vietnam. The patch is a standard fully embroidered 30th division that has had FDR and the SS runes hand embroidered. There is also a cover of a wartime Stars & Stripes newspaper that has this artwork on it. The 36th that was mentioned earlier has ROOSEVELT's SS on a tab that is worn above the patch.

#14 cpatrick

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 12:07 PM

Could someone explain more about who these people were, and what they did? I am assuming that the FDR SS would have been more equivalant to the Allgemeine SS, and not the infamous Waffen-SS? (Political Vs. Combat Component) I am actually kind of shocked that they would even desire to liken themselves to Himmler's finest.

Chris

#15 CNY Militaria

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 12:32 PM

During combat, the 30th Infantry Division was known as the "Workhorse of the Western Front". It was also familiarly known as "Roosevelt's SS Troops", so named by the German High Command because of the consistent vigor and terrific pressure the 30th Infantry Division brought to bear on Hitler's 'elite' 1st SS Division. The German 'elite' 1st SS Division was the main force of resistance just prior to the breakthrough at St. LO, and again at Mortain, which the 30th Infantry Division literally tore to shreds, thereby allowing Gen. George Patton's armored forces of the U.S. Third Army to go forward and race across France, thereby shortening the war by many months. The German 1st SS Division was then reorganized over the next few months, and was again faced by the 30th Infantry Division in the "Battle of the Bulge", during the great Ardennes-Alsace Offensive, near Malmedy, Belgium, during the winter of 1944-45. Again the 30th Infantry Division tore to shreds this 'elite' enemy division, which was never again to return to battle.

#16 Jim Baker

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 12:38 PM

Could someone explain more about who these people were, and what they did? I am assuming that the FDR SS would have been more equivalant to the Allgemeine SS, and not the infamous Waffen-SS? (Political Vs. Combat Component) I am actually kind of shocked that they would even desire to liken themselves to Himmler's finest.

Chris


Respect between opponents. The Waffen SS were elite troops and recognised as such by their opponents. The Germans were paying them (the 30th) a great compliment.

Nice briefing Justin. http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

#17 CNY Militaria

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 12:49 PM

Oh, those aren't my words. Taken from a history of the 30th ID site.

#18 DwightPruitt

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 01:22 PM

Again the 30th Infantry Division tore to shreds this 'elite' enemy division, which was never again to return to battle.


IIRC The Leibstandarte did return to battle, fighting in Hungary and ending up in Austria at war's end.

#19 CNY Militaria

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 01:24 PM

Here is the source: http://30thinfantry.org/history.shtml

#20 Jeeper704

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 02:25 PM

The Waffen-SS being elite is way too much credit for them.
I know of Wehrmacht units having a far better campaign record than those types; like 116th Panzer or Panzer Lehr or 2nd Panzer.
Often too much the Wehrmacht units had to jump in and get those "elite" out of trouble.
But that's another discussion.

I believe several years ago, I saw a "Roosevelt's SS" patch either on display or in someone's collection.
It sure looked nice though.

If I'm correct, elements of the 30th US Infantry Division helped stopping Kampfgruppe Peiper at La Gleize, Belgium (with help of 3rd US Armored).
Remnants of the 1st SS Panzer were thrown against the defenders of Bastogne later in January 1945.
The SS unit later was transferred to Hungary and I read somewhere they had to remove their arm brassards 'Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler" there (don't know if this is true).
FYI.

Erwin


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