Skyligter Posted October 28, 2007 Share #1 Posted October 28, 2007 Last week I showed these two patches to a 30th infantry division veteran and he came up with the story that there was another variant on the 30th infantry patch. Namely one with the letters SS inside, this because people said the 30th was presidents Roosevelt's own "SS" division. According to him only a few soldiers were able to get such a patch. Are there any samples of this patch here on the forum? If so I would like to see them! And another question, why has the left 30th patch shown on the picture a red border? Is it just a simple variation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewA74 Posted October 28, 2007 Share #2 Posted October 28, 2007 Do you have pictures of the back and a closer picture of the "SS"? Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktrooper Posted October 28, 2007 Share #3 Posted October 28, 2007 Do you have pictures of the back and a closer picture of the "SS"?Andrew Andrew, he doesnt have the variant patch he's talking about. This sounds like a play on the pre-WWII 45th Division patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36-tex Posted October 28, 2007 Share #4 Posted October 28, 2007 I think I have seen an "SS" type patch for the 30th. I think there is a 36th Division one someone on this forum showed me once. The red border is just a variation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewA74 Posted October 28, 2007 Share #5 Posted October 28, 2007 ...he doesnt have the variant patch he's talking about.This sounds like a play on the pre-WWII 45th Division patch Oops. I stand corrected. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88thcollector Posted October 28, 2007 Share #6 Posted October 28, 2007 A NC dealer has one. It is priced in the thousands. Some people debate the authenticity of these but I don't have a clue. As the FDR's SS was added to a standard patch, all one needs is skill and cotton thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted October 28, 2007 Share #7 Posted October 28, 2007 The SS verbiage was a hand embroidered add-on to a standard patch and there are originals out there. Make sure there is provenance before shelling out the big bucks, as it wouldn't be too difficult to fake up a standard patch. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted October 28, 2007 Share #8 Posted October 28, 2007 The patch in question does exist and was recently sold at I believe the last SOS show to a well known collecter for under a thousand. When I saw the patch it looked like the ss was just added in most observers eyes but the display included a newspaper article about the patch and a soldier holding the patch. The debate at the show was is it worth that money for the two extra letters. Mort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyligter Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share #9 Posted October 29, 2007 No one with an example here on the forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redone Posted October 29, 2007 Share #10 Posted October 29, 2007 Last week I showed these two patches to a 30th infantry division veteran and he came up with the story that there was another variant on the 30th infantry patch. Namely one with the letters SS inside, this because people said the 30th was presidents Roosevelt's own "SS" division. According to him only a few soldiers were able to get such a patch. Are there any samples of this patch here on the forum? If so I would like to see them! And another question, why has the left 30th patch shown on the picture a red border? Is it just a simple variation? I found a FDR SS 30th Div patch in the pocket of a 30th Div Ike . I is a standard WWII cotton 30th Div patch. FDR & SS is hand sewn. I found online that nickname came from Hitler. I don't remember what they did to earn the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurgo Posted October 29, 2007 Share #11 Posted October 29, 2007 I found a FDR SS 30th Div patch in the pocket of a 30th Div Ike . I is a standard WWII cotton 30th Div patch. FDR & SS is hand sewn. I found online that nickname came from Hitler. I don't remember what they did to earn the name. please give us a pic of the patch regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88thcollector Posted October 30, 2007 Share #12 Posted October 30, 2007 please give us a pic of the patchregards The one I saw was $3,000 but it sounds like the one that sold at the show for less than a 1000 as it had newspaper articles also. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted October 30, 2007 Share #13 Posted October 30, 2007 If the one that is being mentioned from North Carolina is sewn to a Generals flag, that one is original. He bought this from us a couple of years ago. I can't remember the General's ( maybe McCown?) name but all the patches sewn on the flag followed his career from WWII through Vietnam. The patch is a standard fully embroidered 30th division that has had FDR and the SS runes hand embroidered. There is also a cover of a wartime Stars & Stripes newspaper that has this artwork on it. The 36th that was mentioned earlier has ROOSEVELT's SS on a tab that is worn above the patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpatrick Posted October 30, 2007 Share #14 Posted October 30, 2007 Could someone explain more about who these people were, and what they did? I am assuming that the FDR SS would have been more equivalant to the Allgemeine SS, and not the infamous Waffen-SS? (Political Vs. Combat Component) I am actually kind of shocked that they would even desire to liken themselves to Himmler's finest. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY Militaria Posted October 30, 2007 Share #15 Posted October 30, 2007 During combat, the 30th Infantry Division was known as the "Workhorse of the Western Front". It was also familiarly known as "Roosevelt's SS Troops", so named by the German High Command because of the consistent vigor and terrific pressure the 30th Infantry Division brought to bear on Hitler's 'elite' 1st SS Division. The German 'elite' 1st SS Division was the main force of resistance just prior to the breakthrough at St. LO, and again at Mortain, which the 30th Infantry Division literally tore to shreds, thereby allowing Gen. George Patton's armored forces of the U.S. Third Army to go forward and race across France, thereby shortening the war by many months. The German 1st SS Division was then reorganized over the next few months, and was again faced by the 30th Infantry Division in the "Battle of the Bulge", during the great Ardennes-Alsace Offensive, near Malmedy, Belgium, during the winter of 1944-45. Again the 30th Infantry Division tore to shreds this 'elite' enemy division, which was never again to return to battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Baker Posted October 30, 2007 Share #16 Posted October 30, 2007 Could someone explain more about who these people were, and what they did? I am assuming that the FDR SS would have been more equivalant to the Allgemeine SS, and not the infamous Waffen-SS? (Political Vs. Combat Component) I am actually kind of shocked that they would even desire to liken themselves to Himmler's finest. Chris Respect between opponents. The Waffen SS were elite troops and recognised as such by their opponents. The Germans were paying them (the 30th) a great compliment. Nice briefing Justin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY Militaria Posted October 30, 2007 Share #17 Posted October 30, 2007 Oh, those aren't my words. Taken from a history of the 30th ID site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwightPruitt Posted October 30, 2007 Share #18 Posted October 30, 2007 Again the 30th Infantry Division tore to shreds this 'elite' enemy division, which was never again to return to battle. IIRC The Leibstandarte did return to battle, fighting in Hungary and ending up in Austria at war's end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY Militaria Posted October 30, 2007 Share #19 Posted October 30, 2007 Here is the source: http://30thinfantry.org/history.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeper704 Posted October 30, 2007 Share #20 Posted October 30, 2007 The Waffen-SS being elite is way too much credit for them. I know of Wehrmacht units having a far better campaign record than those types; like 116th Panzer or Panzer Lehr or 2nd Panzer. Often too much the Wehrmacht units had to jump in and get those "elite" out of trouble. But that's another discussion. I believe several years ago, I saw a "Roosevelt's SS" patch either on display or in someone's collection. It sure looked nice though. If I'm correct, elements of the 30th US Infantry Division helped stopping Kampfgruppe Peiper at La Gleize, Belgium (with help of 3rd US Armored). Remnants of the 1st SS Panzer were thrown against the defenders of Bastogne later in January 1945. The SS unit later was transferred to Hungary and I read somewhere they had to remove their arm brassards 'Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler" there (don't know if this is true). FYI. Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88thcollector Posted October 30, 2007 Share #21 Posted October 30, 2007 If the one that is being mentioned from North Carolina is sewn to a Generals flag, that one is original. He bought this from us a couple of years ago. I can't remember the General's ( maybe McCown?) name but all the patches sewn on the flag followed his career from WWII through Vietnam. The patch is a standard fully embroidered 30th division that has had FDR and the SS runes hand embroidered. There is also a cover of a wartime Stars & Stripes newspaper that has this artwork on it. The 36th that was mentioned earlier has ROOSEVELT's SS on a tab that is worn above the patch. maybe the same one but it was not sewn to a flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill K Posted October 31, 2007 Share #22 Posted October 31, 2007 Here's one I have. Not the pretty sewn kind- but inked similar to some of the armor patches out there. I got it off ebay several years ago for $5. It's probably good because the seller I got it from really didn't know one patch from the next and listed everything he had for $5 each starting bid. Considering the price, if he was trying to put one over on me I don't think it was too much of a sucess. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36-tex Posted October 31, 2007 Share #23 Posted October 31, 2007 If the one that is being mentioned from North Carolina is sewn to a Generals flag, that one is original. He bought this from us a couple of years ago. I can't remember the General's ( maybe McCown?) name but all the patches sewn on the flag followed his career from WWII through Vietnam. The patch is a standard fully embroidered 30th division that has had FDR and the SS runes hand embroidered. There is also a cover of a wartime Stars & Stripes newspaper that has this artwork on it. The 36th that was mentioned earlier has ROOSEVELT's SS on a tab that is worn above the patch. The 36th patch I have seen has a tab that reads "American SS" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyligter Posted November 1, 2007 Author Share #24 Posted November 1, 2007 The veteran who I spoke said that the "SS" he saw on the paches were yellow embroided. Any comments on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redone Posted November 1, 2007 Share #25 Posted November 1, 2007 This is the FDR SS patch I have. I found it in the the pocket of a 30th Div uniform I picked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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