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#76 J_Andrews

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 12:24 PM

A USMC WWII vet who enlisted in the 5th Marines in 1939 told me that MARINE practice of wearing the WWI French fourragere was that "plankowners" who were in the 5th (or 6th) during the period for which the "pogeybait rope" was awarded wore the two single-cord loops on the outside of the arm, while everybody else (current members) wore the loops through the armpit. He showed me pictures of an officer, a warrant officer/gunner and his first sgt who had the loops on the outside, while everybody else had them inside. One of these three alos had the Croix de Guerre as an individual award, with palm.

Can anybody else confirm this? Was it a matter of regulation, or just custom?

#77 Gil Sanow

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 12:43 PM

Hi Ricardo. I am also not positive about this particular "rope" but I can say that I have an almost identical one (except mine is a considerably more worn condition than yours). It came to me as part of a brightly colored red and medium blue American Legoin band uniform.

Mine is made of yellow and blue silk thread woven around a white cotton core in anidentical manner as the Frencf CdG fourragère with an identical "nail" at the end. If I can dig it out this evening, I will post a photo of it.


This might be any number of things, including some sort of band thing. It is also the color of the Luxembourg Croix de Guerre. Now, were these awarded as a fourragiere to any US units? I have never encountered any reference to it.

G

#78 ItemCo16527

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 02:57 AM

This might be any number of things, including some sort of band thing. It is also the color of the Luxembourg Croix de Guerre. Now, were these awarded as a fourragiere to any US units? I have never encountered any reference to it.

G

Hi Gil,
According to the copy of the Army's Unit Citation and Campaign Participation Register i have, the only shoulder cords awarded to US troops during WWII were the French and Belgian Croix de Guerre Fourrageres and the Dutch Order of William orange lanyard. It is possible that there is a fourragere for the Luxembourg CdG, but it was never awarded to Allied forces. An example of this would be the fourragere for the Belgian order of Leopold I. It exists (and I narrowly missed out on getting one), but no US units were ever awarded it.

#79 Desertrat

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 11:45 AM

Well, if you did, it was not authorized by Army Regulations. It never has been, either. Do you have an image of it being worn? Were you Regular Army or National Guard? If National Guard, was it some kind of state or local thing?

Cords could be purchased in every color imaginable in Army-Navy stores for wear by those who did not know better or wanted to "dress" up the uniform to impress civilians. I served from 1970 to 1991 on active duty and the only authorized cord was and still is the one for Infantry. I saw a lot of soldiers wearing Class A and Class B uniforms in all kind of units-- no cords except Infanty were worn. I've been a DA Civilian since 1992, and have traveled to a lot of installations-- again no other cord except the Infantry cord is worn. You will have to show me in the proper uniform and insignia regulations of the past and present where any other cord except infantry was ever authorized. I have some of them here and no Ordnance cord or any other except Infantry has been or is authorized.


I purchased mine at Clothing Sales , Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD. in 1984. I was Active Duty Army (1984-1991), then National Guard (1991-2004).
It may have not been authorized but there were soldiers buying and wearing them home. Sorry, no pics, just my first hand knowledge.

#80 atb

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 01:51 PM

I purchased mine at Clothing Sales , Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD. in 1984. I was Active Duty Army (1984-1991), then National Guard (1991-2004).
It may have not been authorized but there were soldiers buying and wearing them home. Sorry, no pics, just my first hand knowledge.

I'll have to go with your first person experience.

Edited by atb, 24 March 2008 - 01:52 PM.


#81 J_Andrews

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 05:52 PM

In 1966, a former co-worker who had been drafted and graduated from Field Artillery AIT dropped in at work, wearing khakis. Oddly, his ensemble included a service dress cap with red plastic disc behind the EM cap device, bloused grunt (not jump) boots, a red neckerchief, a red Inf-style cord and red plastic discs behind his collar brass. I did not "out" him, but quietly asked him what was with the stuff. He said all these things had been ISSUED to him at Ft Sill and his DIs and Sgt Maj all wore all these things, all the time. And they had railed at the trainees that they, Gun Bunnies, were every bit as good as those @#%^&%@! Infantry guys and they should wear this stuff with great pride. Thus, he had no intention of doing without, and there was no point in trying to redeem him. Go figure...

#82 milbuf

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 11:30 AM

Gentlemen,

I picked up an interesting shoulder cord the other day and I have not seen another. It is woven white cord and originally came with a group of WWII Navy items according to scuttlebutt.



Has anyone seen one of these shoulder cords before?



Yes I have a 60's vintage navy blue set jumper and trousers that has a white cord in place on the left. Even though it is correct to the uniform I have no clue to its meaning or purpose.

#83 milbuf

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 11:33 AM

In 1966, a former co-worker who had been drafted and graduated from Field Artillery AIT dropped in at work, wearing khakis. Oddly, his ensemble included a service dress cap with red plastic disc behind the EM cap device, bloused grunt (not jump) boots, a red neckerchief, a red Inf-style cord and red plastic discs behind his collar brass. I did not "out" him, but quietly asked him what was with the stuff. He said all these things had been ISSUED to him at Ft Sill and his DIs and Sgt Maj all wore all these things, all the time. And they had railed at the trainees that they, Gun Bunnies, were every bit as good as those @#%^&%@! Infantry guys and they should wear this stuff with great pride. Thus, he had no intention of doing without, and there was no point in trying to redeem him. Go figure...



That was typical additions to uniforms of 64-68 I went in in 64 and served both in infantry and engineer units. We had scarves, cords, disks and related flash in branch colors that were issued thru the supply rooms. It was dependent on the local post or division commanders to my understanding.

#84 ligart

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 07:19 PM

Here are a couple of more uniforms with the above mentioned cords in place.

Posted Image

Third is a Korean War era 9th Infy Ike with both the Infantry cord and the WW1 French C de G fourragere.
Note also that the infantry blue cord is worn with matching disc backgrounds indicating a combat-ready unit.

What would a gold cord -- same style, same shoulder as the blue infantry cord -- represent?

#85 Stinger Gunner USMC

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 07:46 PM

What would a gold cord -- same style, same shoulder as the blue infantry cord -- represent?

That is one nice looking Korean War uniform you have there.
The blue Infantry cord was the only one authorized but it is common to find cords of identical manufacture in various colors that were used by high school and college marching bands and ROTC units.

#86 edgeer

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 07:31 PM

Here are a couple of more uniforms with the above mentioned cords in place.

First is an occupation era 16th Infantry LT's Ike with the MM fourragere.

Second is a 327th GIR Ike with both the Belgian C de G fourragere and the Dutch Orange Lanyard.

Third is a Korean War era 9th Infy Ike with both the Infantry cord and the WW1 French C de G fourragere.
Note also that the infantry blue cord is worn with matching disc backgrounds indicating a combat-ready unit.


Can't quote on the regs when the Korean war ear, 9th Inf regt, but between 1975 when I earned mine until i retired in 96. The blue disk and cord had nothing to do with combat ready unit. I check out AR 670-1 dated 3 February 2005 states the following:

The only personal who are authorized to wear the infantry cord are Officers and enlisted personnel of the infantry, holding an infantry PMOS or specialty, who have been awarded the Combat Infantryman badge, the Expert Infantry badge, or who have successfully completed the basic unit phase of an Army training program or equivalent.

further restrictions are Infantry personnel (as described above) may wear the infantry cord as follows:

a. During the period of assignment to an infantry regiment, brigade, separate infantry battalion, infantry company (including the headquarters and headquarters company of an infantry division), infantry platoon, or infantry TDA unit. In addition, infantrymen assigned to infantry sections or squads within units other than infantry units may wear the cord when authorized by battalion or higher-level commanders.

b. During the period assigned for duty as an Army recruiter or advisor, ROTC instructor, or member of the staff
and faculty of the U.S. Military Academy, as long as personnel retain their infantry PMOS.

c. During the period of assignment at brigade- or lower-level BT or AIT units, or in OSUT infantry units, as long
as personnel retain their infantry PMOS.

d. Infantry OSUT and IOBC graduates may wear the cord en route to their initial follow-on infantry assignment.

e. Soldiers en route from an assignment where wear of the shoulder cord was authorized are permitted to wear the
shoulder cord if they are pending reassignment to another organization authorized wear of the cord, or when assigned to a separation point for discharge purposes.

#87 Corpl. Cleaver

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 09:56 AM

OK guys, I have 2 white Fourrageres, what are they?

#88 J_Andrews

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 01:13 PM

I recall seeing -- in disbelief -- that JROTC instructor staff were AUTHORIZED BY REG to wear the Inf blue rope EVEN IF THEY WERE NOT INFANTRYMEN. Same for Recruiters IIRC. The reg I was shown was in force in the 1980s.

The Navy and USAF have often used white cords, of the Inf style and the aigulette style, for color guards and musicians.

#89 dogfacedsoldier

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Posted 10 August 2008 - 04:57 PM

Hi Stinger,
The correct fourragere for wear by Marines is the one pictured in your post, which is for the Croix de Guerre 1914-18. The one with the green and red stripes would be for the CdG 1939-45.
Hi Ricardo,
I'm not sure what that fourragere would be for, but it could be for an ROTC detachment or some type of paramilitary organization. If it is American, that is :)






Hi Ricardo,

It could be a military school, as I had one very similar, but it burned. Along with our house, not sure, but it military schools are a possiblity.


Jon

#90 dogfacedsoldier

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Posted 10 August 2008 - 04:57 PM

Hi Stinger,
The correct fourragere for wear by Marines is the one pictured in your post, which is for the Croix de Guerre 1914-18. The one with the green and red stripes would be for the CdG 1939-45.
Hi Ricardo,
I'm not sure what that fourragere would be for, but it could be for an ROTC detachment or some type of paramilitary organization. If it is American, that is :)






Hi Ricardo,

It could be a military school, as I had one very similar, but it burned. Along with our house, not sure, but it military schools are a possiblity.


Jon

#91 Guest_kixki_*

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 07:08 AM

Hi,what opnion are you about this cord?

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#92 FightenIrish35

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 02:00 PM

I have a WW2 1st Infantry Ike jacket what would the significance of this one be. Also the presidential unit citiation has a leaf inside of it,what does this mean? http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif

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#93 SEABEEBRIAN

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 06:12 PM

I have a WW2 1st Infantry Ike jacket what would the significance of this one be. Also the presidential unit citiation has a leaf inside of it,what does this mean? http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif


I recently ran across this at the Navy Relief thrift shop on base here for only 50 cents. I presume it is an army aide aguillette based on the eagle. Any ideas?

#94 SEABEEBRIAN

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 06:13 PM

I recently ran across this at the Navy Relief thrift shop on base here for only 50 cents. I presume it is an army aide aguillette based on the eagle. Any ideas?


and a close up of the pencil

#95 SEABEEBRIAN

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 06:31 PM

A picture of a display at a navy exchange, has a nice and old aiguillette

#96 Bluehawk

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 08:27 PM

....and USAF have often used white cords, of the Inf style and the aigulette style, for color guards and musicians.

Also worn in white and the colors blue, green and red of the thick infantry style to denote various levels of unit responsibility/achievement in Tech School prior to first permanent party assignment.

#97 collector

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Posted 28 April 2009 - 08:57 AM

The Following are aiguilettes worn by my father, Col. L. G. Ditta, when he was an Asst. Naval Attache in the 50's.


Here's some shots of it in wear, all three shots of then Lt.Col. Ditta were taken in Turkey. The center and right shots provided to me by Mark M.
Center shots shows the much less formal version.

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Edited by collector, 28 April 2009 - 09:04 AM.


#98 Wolfhounds

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 04:32 PM

Hey guys, I need a little help on these WWII COG Fourragere's. The one on the left is my Grandfathers WWII French COG Fourragere and the one on the right is one I just picked up. They both look like WWII French COG Fourragere's to me. Are these both WWII French COG Fourragere's? There is not much difference between the two of them. On my Grandfather's the red is just a little darker than on the one I just picked up, other than that, to me it looks like they both have green as the primary color with red stripes, ,which means that they would both be French right? I though that the one I just picked up might be a WWII Belgium COG Fourragere, but the primary colors are the same and the only difference is the shades or red. I took the best pic's I could.

Any help, questions, and comments would be appreciated. Many thanks, Sean

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#99 Wolfhounds

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 04:33 PM

more

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#100 Wolfhounds

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Posted 09 May 2009 - 04:33 PM

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