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#276 patches

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 07:06 PM

This I'm thinking is a manufacturer variant of the WWI French Rope.

 

berlin_brigade_lanyard_1.jpg



#277 GAZOO

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 08:42 AM

This I'm thinking is a manufacturer variant of the WWI French Rope.

 

berlin_brigade_lanyard_1.jpg

 

  Thanks, I suspected that as well but I did find a picture of a uniformed soldier (can't find it now)
wearing one that looked to be the same in design and color but no information on the cord ?
Pink and Green ARE not common colors in ribbons and have been doing a lot of looking for any
military ribbon (any country) in those colors but have come up empty.

 

Still a nice cord and will need to figure it out eventually, I am sure one day I will find the clue I need
to put it all together

 

Thanks again
Dennis

 

EDIT: Oh just noticed you suspected WWI anything standing out that would indicate WWI as opposed to WWII ?


Edited by GAZOO, 05 May 2018 - 08:45 AM.


#278 patches

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 08:23 AM

 

  Thanks, I suspected that as well but I did find a picture of a uniformed soldier (can't find it now)
wearing one that looked to be the same in design and color but no information on the cord ?
Pink and Green ARE not common colors in ribbons and have been doing a lot of looking for any
military ribbon (any country) in those colors but have come up empty.

 

Still a nice cord and will need to figure it out eventually, I am sure one day I will find the clue I need
to put it all together

 

Thanks again
Dennis

 

EDIT: Oh just noticed you suspected WWI anything standing out that would indicate WWI as opposed to WWII ?

WWI ropes have Red Flecks, WWII have a continuous Red Line.



#279 GAZOO

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 08:41 AM

WWI ropes have Red Flecks, WWII have a continuous Red Line.

 

  I see Thanks again. Much appreciated



#280 seanmc1114

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 01:02 PM

Soldiers of the 3rd Battalion 60th Infantry 9th Infantry arriving in Hawaii after the 9th was withdrawn from Vietnam in 1969. They are wearing the fourragere of the Vietnamese Gallantry Cross Unit Citation indicating the unit was twice cited for that award. It has been mentioned previously in this topic that for a period during the Vietnam War, Vietnamese regulations authorized to wear of the fourragere to units that received multiple citations and U.S. regulations initially authorized acceptance by U.S. units. However, this approval was later rescinded by the U.S. government although the wear of the Gallantry Cross Unit Citation was still authorized. 

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  • Fourragere.Gallantry Cross Unit Citation.9th Infantry Division.jpg


#281 patches

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 06:26 PM

Great photo, those boxes for those who don't know are souvenir Vietnamese girl dolls, given away to DEROSing personal, I remember my cousin brought his home back in the fall of 1968, and he was in the Marines. They're actually still out there to buy on Ebay, maybe one day I'll get one for me.

 

VINTAGE-1960s-TRADITIONAL-VIETNAMESE-DOL

post-1761-0-69088700-1525986162.jpg



#282 GAZOO

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 06:56 PM

Soldiers of the 3rd Battalion 60th Infantry 9th Infantry arriving in Hawaii after the 9th was withdrawn from Vietnam in 1969. They are wearing the fourragere of the Vietnamese Gallantry Cross Unit Citation indicating the unit was twice cited for that award. It has been mentioned previously in this topic that for a period during the Vietnam War, Vietnamese regulations authorized to wear of the fourragere to units that received multiple citations and U.S. regulations initially authorized acceptance by U.S. units. However, this approval was later rescinded by the U.S. government although the wear of the Gallantry Cross Unit Citation was still authorized. 

 

  Oh thanks, these look very much like the same wider weave I see on the example I have.

 

EDIT: Actually now that I have gone back and looked again at my photo I am not sure again :)


Edited by GAZOO, 13 May 2018 - 07:03 PM.


#283 ww1buff

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 07:25 PM

I'm actually finishing up a book on Unit Awards to Organizations in the American Expeditionary Forces.  This is a very misunderstood topic, and I hope to correct a lot of the misinformation that is out there.  It will only cover WWI unit awards, but will have all of the official citations and a lot of material about how the whole process evolved during the war.

 

PM me if you are interested in details about the book and for advance purchase options.



#284 patches

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 08:21 PM

I'm actually finishing up a book on Unit Awards to Organizations in the American Expeditionary Forces.  This is a very misunderstood topic, and I hope to correct a lot of the misinformation that is out there.  It will only cover WWI unit awards, but will have all of the official citations and a lot of material about how the whole process evolved during the war.

 

PM me if you are interested in details about the book and for advance purchase options.

Sounds good, you can post all you need to post on your book in a new specific topic in this Forum.

 

http://www.usmilitar...9-book-reports/



#285 ww1buff

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Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:30 PM

GAZOO,

 

You have posted photos of a French Fourragere from the interwar period.  It is most likely of French manufacture.  The "pink" is actually a faded red for the colors of the Croix de Guerre (red & green.).

 

When we started accepting awards of the Fourragere, there were no U.S. manufacturers, so we bought them from the French.  That style (with the 2 outer loops) appears to have been phased out by WWII.  Fourrageres officially issued during WWII and later lacked the outer loops.  Oral tradition is that the loops were only worn outside the shoulder if a soldier was in a unit on both occasions the unit was cited and thus earned the Fourragere as a personal award.  There is photographic evidence that seems to support this.  And as the number of WWI A.E.F. veterans on active duty declined, eventually the 2 outer loops were removed altogether.



#286 72psb

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:17 AM

WW1 buff,

Are you sure about the above statement on the double loop fourrageres.I only ask as my father was at the Nurnberg Trials and his fourragere had the two outside hoops and an additional knot above the metal tip.(Unit; 3rd Army,1st Division,26th Infantry). He was assigned to the this unit for the trials to build points to return home.No combat with this unit.



#287 GAZOO

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 10:02 AM

GAZOO,

 

You have posted photos of a French Fourragere from the interwar period.  It is most likely of French manufacture.  The "pink" is actually a faded red for the colors of the Croix de Guerre (red & green.).

 

When we started accepting awards of the Fourragere, there were no U.S. manufacturers, so we bought them from the French.  That style (with the 2 outer loops) appears to have been phased out by WWII.  Fourrageres officially issued during WWII and later lacked the outer loops.  Oral tradition is that the loops were only worn outside the shoulder if a soldier was in a unit on both occasions the unit was cited and thus earned the Fourragere as a personal award.  There is photographic evidence that seems to support this.  And as the number of WWI A.E.F. veterans on active duty declined, eventually the 2 outer loops were removed altogether.

 

  Thanks buddy

 

  Interesting SIDE NOTE the PINK in the fourragere does not seem to be faded
unless it was faded before it was put together, I see no evidence of fading inside the weave or
in any areas that would of padded due to light exposure. Maybe a natural color change of the
thread overtime,it is very even fade if it is.



#288 seanmc1114

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 06:53 AM

I purchased mine at Clothing Sales , Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD. in 1984. I was Active Duty Army (1984-1991), then National Guard (1991-2004).
It may have not been authorized but there were soldiers buying and wearing them home. Sorry, no pics, just my first hand knowledge.

 

I'll have to go with your first person experience.

Ordnance Corps shoulder cord. I believe the DUI is for the 101st Ordnance Battalion.

Attached Images

  • Shoulder Cord.Ordnance.jpg
  • 101st Ordnance Battalion.DUI.png


#289 seanmc1114

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 06:55 AM

there is an Ordnance Corps shoulder cord, gold and maroon, like the Infantry one. It was only authorized for wear in transit or if assigned to an Ordnance unit. I wore one from 1984 to 1991.

 

Well, if you did, it was not authorized by Army Regulations. It never has been, either. Do you have an image of it being worn? Were you Regular Army or National Guard? If National Guard, was it some kind of state or local thing?

Cords could be purchased in every color imaginable in Army-Navy stores for wear by those who did not know better or wanted to "dress" up the uniform to impress civilians. I served from 1970 to 1991 on active duty and the only authorized cord was and still is the one for Infantry. I saw a lot of soldiers wearing Class A and Class B uniforms in all kind of units-- no cords except Infanty were worn. I've been a DA Civilian since 1992, and have traveled to a lot of installations-- again no other cord except the Infantry cord is worn. You will have to show me in the proper uniform and insignia regulations of the past and present where any other cord except infantry was ever authorized. I have some of them here and no Ordnance cord or any other except Infantry has been or is authorized.

 

I purchased mine at Clothing Sales , Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD. in 1984. I was Active Duty Army (1984-1991), then National Guard (1991-2004).
It may have not been authorized but there were soldiers buying and wearing them home. Sorry, no pics, just my first hand knowledge.

 

I'll have to go with your first person experience.

Ordnance Corps shoulder cord with 101st Ordnance Battalion DUI 

Attached Images

  • Shoulder Cord.Ordnance.jpg
  • 101st Ordnance Battalion.DUI.png


#290 atb

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 09:39 AM

Wow! And after a mere 10 years. Thank you. I know those types of non-infantry branch colored shoulder cords were worn after WW2. Sometimes, apparently with local command approval. They just were not sanctioned by "big" Army.


Edited by atb, 17 August 2018 - 09:40 AM.


#291 seanmc1114

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 04:15 AM

Military Intelligence branch insignia and a branch shoulder cord. Branch colors are oriental blue piped with silver gray. An earlier post in this topic shows an example of this cord and it appears to contain both colors.

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  • Shoulder Cord.Military Intelligence.jpg


#292 seanmc1114

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 07:20 AM

This appears to be an infantryman of some unit of the 60th Infantry Regiment wearing and Infantry blue shoulder cord and collar disc backings. However, he is wearing an 18th Military Police Brigade pocket patch. Several military police units in Vietnam had attached infantry companies which served as security forces. Company C 52nd Infantry was assigned to the 18th, but I cannot find any reference to any unit of the 60th Infantry. 

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  • Shoulder Cord.Infantry.18th MP Brigade.jpg
  • 60th Infantry Regiment.DUI.jpg


#293 patches

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 07:53 AM

This appears to be an infantryman of some unit of the 60th Infantry Regiment wearing and Infantry blue shoulder cord and collar disc backings. However, he is wearing an 18th Military Police Brigade pocket patch. Several military police units in Vietnam had attached infantry companies which served as security forces. Company C 52nd Infantry was assigned to the 18th, but I cannot find any reference to any unit of the 60th Infantry. 

Best guess is a temporary detail assignment, maybe a platoon, maybe a company??



#294 VolunteerArmoury

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 09:48 AM

Best guess is a temporary detail assignment, maybe a platoon, maybe a company??


Or simply may not be wearing the correct DUIs. Ive had to wear incorrect DUIs more than once in my career until the correct ones were available.

Edited by VolunteerArmoury, 27 September 2018 - 09:48 AM.


#295 seanmc1114

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 10:03 AM

Or simply may not be wearing the correct DUIs. Ive had to wear incorrect DUIs more than once in my career until the correct ones were available.

Regardless, he's an infantryman apparently assigned to an MP brigade.



#296 VolunteerArmoury

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 10:12 AM

Definitely so. I was an Infantryman assigned to a Sustainment Command & some other places you wouldnt expect me at points but that was when I was a NCO & so it was in the 3 shop normally. Id suspect its a security detail like others imagined.

#297 patches

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 05:21 PM

Regardless, he's an infantryman apparently assigned to an MP brigade.

My guess, his unit, maybe only his platoon is temperately attached to his local MP unit, not division , but a unit within the 18th MP Bde, who had elmts all over the RVN, possibly for road work, IE extra convoy security etc etc.



#298 seanmc1114

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 12:55 PM

Notice the way the guy on the right with his back to the camera is wearing his Infantry shoulder cord. It looks like it is looped over his epaulette and attached somehow on the front of his jacket and also that the end that should be attached to the button under the epaulette is looped under his armpit.

Attached Images

  • Shoulder Cord.Infantry.Over The Eppaulette.jpg


#299 patches

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 05:24 PM

Any idea what combat patch the one GI is wearing? where the arrow is pointing.

post-1761-0-54848600-1539896125.jpg



#300 seanmc1114

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 11:24 AM

The 1st Battalion 52nd Infantry was assigned to the 2nd Armored Division between 1957 and 1963.

Attached Images

  • Shoulder Cord.Infantry.2nd Armored Division.jpg



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