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Entrenching / Intrenching Tools & T Handle Shovels

Started by bilko *Deceased* , Jan 03 2007 12:03 PM

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#1 bilko *Deceased*

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:03 PM

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Picture_128.jpg

#2 bilko *Deceased*

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:04 PM

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Both 1st pattern covers are J A SHOE 1943.

#3 bilko *Deceased*

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 01:10 PM

Etools to go with the covers.

Top AMES 1943

Middle AF&H CO 1943 (American Fork & Hoe)

bottom WOOD 1943

I know of no other makers.

Picture_257.jpg

#4 Luke

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 07:21 AM

Thank you for this information. It took me a long time to find a good and OD#3 (with OD#7 borders) carrier for the folding shovel made in 1943. You've got some nice covers and E-tools!

#5 craig_pickrall

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 08:48 AM

This will add a BRIT made M1910 cover and also a USMC M1910 cover plus the T handle M1910 shovel.

M1910_Shovel_Covers___Front.jpg
M1910_Shovel_Covers___Rear.jpg

#6 craig_pickrall

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 08:49 AM

Shovel_Cover___Army___USMC___Front.jpg
Shovel_Cover___Army___USMC___Rear.jpg

#7 craig_pickrall

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 08:50 AM

Shovel_1A___T_handle.jpg

#8 Greg Robinson

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 09:59 AM

I know that collectors call those M1910 covers with the faint "US" stamp and USMC type brass hooks as being "USMC t handle shovel covers"....and I own one of them myself....but the ones that are no doubt legit USMC issue look quite a bit different. I've got two that look like USMC because of the lack of any markings and they have the cast bronze buckles and square end tips on the strap. But the one that's no doubt USMC will be a lightweight mustard tan canvas, cast bronze buckle and square end tips. and.....this is definitive.....a web TAPE strap used due to the fact that the Marine Corps Phila Depot lacked proper machines to attach the standard webbing straps. This is the t handle shovel cover used by the USMC throughout WW2 although they also used quite a few US Army contract covers.

I'll attach pics ASAP

#9 Greg Robinson

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 10:13 AM

Upper left cover: Not 100% sure of this one. Had markings at some point but they were covered with paint. Has brass hooks. And it has movie property stamping inside. So it's a "maybe" Might be WW1 vintage.

Upper right cover: Most likely USMC. Manufacturing is consistent with USMC covers. thin wire steel hooks. Don't know what the markings refer to.

Lower cover: 100% certain of this one. Has the web tape straps which is how the Phila Depot did it early WW2. Also has the thin wire steel hooks.

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#10 bilko *Deceased*

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 10:58 AM

Top T handle is AMES 1943

Bottom is unmarked and made in a different manner any ideas why?

Picture_262.jpg

#11 Schnicklfritz

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 07:20 AM

The shovel you have picture is what others have referred to me as the USMC pattern e-tool. Whether this is true or not, I do know that shovel pattern is quite rare and I have only seen a few. I'm lucky enough to have 3 and they all have the same construction with the reenforcement plate welded to the back and same distinct green paint.

#12 earlymb

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 08:58 AM

I have a number of standard M1910 shovels in my collection, and one that is quite a bit different from the rest. It is different in construction from the other shovels (much flimsier), and is only marked 'US' on the metal shaft above the blade in a long, thin font. I could't find any markings on the wood, although those can be worn away. I'm pretty sure this is not a reproduction or aftermarket thing, since it has obvious signs of old age and is marked as military property. I have heard 3 possible theories: 1. the shovel is actually one of the mysterious M1908 pattern shovels; 2. it is an extremely rare British made example; and 3. it is a very early production M1910 pattern.

I personally think the 3th option is the most accurate, as there is no proof either the M1908 pattern or a British made variant even ever existed. Due to the fragile construction of this example it sounds very plausible to me the design was soon altered in something more sturdy. I am keen to hear if someone else has the same model shovel, or any confirmation or other identification of this shovel. The blade has the same size as a standard M1910 head; it fits nicely in a 1942 dated carrier.

First, some overall pics and a detail of the construction:

m1910bmschep0012cl.jpg

m1910bmschep0025sm.jpg

m1910bmschep0040vn.jpg

Second, a close-up of the only marking:

aa0017vc.jpg

#13 earlymb

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 09:01 AM

Some more pics, together with a standard M1910 shovel:

spul0010an.jpg

spul0027eu.jpg

spul0035iw.jpg

Greetz ;)

David

#14 craig_pickrall

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 09:06 AM

David, pre WW2 is outside my area of interest but I think the unusual shovel you show is an original M1910 version. It was determined fairly quickly the design was weak and they were re-designed. There are several othe rmembers here that can tell you more about it.

#15 General Apathy

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 01:59 AM

Shovel_Plans.jpg
Shovel_Pre_1910.jpg

This part is to member ' earlymb', I think you certainly have a M-1910 pattern shovel , and definatly no later than 1913 as the plans I am showing are dated 1913, and these show the regular recognised metalwork holding the shaft from both sides. I have a shovel than may be slightly earlier than yours in that the metalwork coming away from the blade up the shaft is only on the front, it does not wrap around the rear as yours does. so I would think that yours is an improvement on mine, but then the improvement on yours becomes the standard.
I am sorry mine is packed away and not available to display and I can only show a photo of a photo, it can be seen that the two rivits have split the wood due to no metal support there.

#16 Sgt Brown

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Posted 04 February 2007 - 07:52 AM

OK. Now what the heck is this one?

Tom http://www.usmilitar...tyle_emoticons/default/think.gif

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#17 General Apathy

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 06:47 AM

Marine_covers_76.jpg
Marine_Covers_74.jpg

Hello Marine-Kabar, regarding your post #10 on this loop, you show 1910 covers that you mention as Marine with which I agree. The one you show has number 76 on the rear and you wonder what it relates to, well I have one marked 74. If these covers were consecutively numbered then our two covers started life next to one another at some stage. So do any other of our forum members have number 75 ? Presently I think our two covers reside some three thousand miles or so apart, so I copied your photo and shot mine sat on the tailgate of my red pick-up as you have done with yours, just so they can both feel at home.

#18 New Romantic

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 01:37 PM

Here is a 1913 RIA manufactured M1910 shovel carrier in the early olive green shade. The hardware is also early-flat buckle and square tab on the end of the strap.

1913shovelcover.jpg

#19 bilko *Deceased*

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 01:08 PM

Another "paired" set of covers..HINSON 43..enjoy

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#20 Guest_m1carbine44_*

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 08:18 PM

hi guys im new to this forum and i have a shovel i got from my nieghbor that i was curious if anyone has any idea what it is god knows i dont.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/m1carbine44/Camproberts07013.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/m1carbine44/Camproberts07011.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/m1carbine44/Camproberts07010.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/m1carbine44/Camproberts07009.jpg

Edited by m1carbine44, 07 November 2007 - 08:19 PM.


#21 2ad82recon

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 12:20 PM

Can one of you kind gentlemen if you have one in your collection please measure the handle legnth of a "cut down" M1943 shovel handle...i picked one up today a genuine AMES 1944 but want to know if the handle legnth was cut down 68 years ago (if there was a standard legnth) and not 6 months ago.

Thank you all for checking for me

Regards

Lloyd

#22 RustyCanteen

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 08:01 AM

I don't think I have ever heard of an "official" length for a shorter handle, and aside from the T-handles that are seen I don't recall seeing an original photo of a shortened handle on an M1943 shovel.


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