TL-29 electricians knife question

[ronl]

I have a CS-34 pouch I bought years ago but neither of the tools in it were marked US. The TL-29 type knife is simply marked 1148 Kabar and the pliers are marked Utica 259-8. Can anyone date these tools for me?

[QED4]

They are not usually masked with a US but the knife should be marked TL-29 and the pliers should be marked TL-13.

[ronl]

Neither piece is martially marked. The knife is standard TL-29 type with rosewood grips with the brass spacers, but is marked Kabar 1148 USA on the ricasso of the large blade. The pliers are typical TL-13's simply marked Utica 259-8 Utica,N.Y. USA and on the reverse Lubring Patented.

[artu44]

It seems your items are from civilian market. Military issues must be marked as QED4 indicated.

[MAS36]

I have a black handled TL-29 type knife mfg by Camillus and it is NOT MARKED TL-29

 

but it has engraved markings on the plastic grip

 

US - D - 115.9

 

and also on the blade:

 

US - D - 11-12

[artu44]

It's not a Signal Corp issue, otherwise it shoud have the tipical marking TL (tool).

[VMI88]

The TL-29 is just a commercial design electrician's knife. I've even seen them with Craftsman markings!

 

Bill

[artu44]

It's true the opposite. It's possible that someone for sales appeal would borrow military (in this case Signal Corp) denomination. Do you noticed that also the angle flashlight is named TL122? Signal Corps adopted his own markings for his equipment: TL stands for tool, ST for strap, CS for case, IN for insulator and so on.

[ronl]

Perhaps I have asked the wrong questions here. Commercial private purchase items were often used by military personnel and did not always bear military markings, especially where such things as knives, small tools,etc. were concerned. Can anyone date the knife for me? Kabar with rosewood grips, brass dividers between blades, marked 1148 USA.

[dustin]

ron, typically brass dividers are a good sign it is WWII or earlier production, the use of all stainless components was used by the end of WWII and into today.Knife manufacturers had to look at alternate materials during the war for obvious reasons.the number would be a manufacturer part number and that could have stayed with the knife type for many decades to my knowledge an exact date would be next to impossible but due to the knife having brass dividers and wood handle I would feel comfortable and saying it is mid 1940's and earlier.Post WWII pocket knives or jackknives are usually all stainless and hardened plastic grips but there are exceptions as well...so you could call your knife WWII and am sure no one could proove you wrong IMO..If you are looking for a electricians knife to put into a CS-34 I would suggest finding a real TL-29, they are pretty common and your pliers are correct just not signal corp marked,these pliers are fairly difficult to find with the TL marking, the pliers date to the 1930's and very possibly well before and used for many decades and who knows how long after the war they were made.so bottom line both your tools could be WWII but with no exact link to military procurement

hand tools are an interesting subject and argued by mnay collectors especially vehicle collectors on what is correct for their tool kits.most tools in vehicle kits are marked with national standard type markings such as wrenches with lets say 723, all brands carry this number and denotes the sizes of the wrench wether it be fairmount,barcolo buffalo etc..though some wrenches actually have government stock numbers like 41-W-1234 on wrenches, screw drivers etc..

what is coorect? an Irwin screwdriver is correct but most would want one with the stock number and only recognize this as the truely correct piece but no one can actually proove this either way.It is hard to believe that all the tens of hundreds of thousands of hand tools purchased by the US government would all be stamped wehter signal corp or other so there is a fine line depending on whom your talking too..and some might say if you substitute it is "fantasy" with no provenence or proof.In catalog or other they call the tools out by there stock number or designation example

TL-29 JACKKNIFE,ELECTRICIANS

TL-13 PLIERS 6"

41-W-1234 WRENCH, ADJUSTABLE 11"

So ultimately collectors would would want the correct pieces and marked as such...looks like a duck but sounds like a chicken it is not really a duck

[Bob Hudson]

Kabar with rosewood grips, brass dividers between blades, marked 1148 USA.

 

I found listings showing those selling for $35-45 even without US military markings. Keep in mind that not everything issued did have markings and at the beginning of the war things like knives were drawn from civilian stocks until military contract orders could keep up. Reknowned military expert Frank Trzaska has done an article on the Kabar TL-29 for the Feb 97 Knife World and it's in his book Military Knives, A Reference Book, so maybe someone has some details on it and the issue of unmarked TL-29's. I'll add "Kabar TL-29" to this topic's title to maybe attract a few more knife experts.

[robinb]

Neither piece is martially marked. The knife is standard TL-29 type with rosewood grips with the brass spacers, but is marked Kabar 1148 USA on the ricasso of the large blade. The pliers are typical TL-13's simply marked Utica 259-8 Utica,N.Y. USA and on the reverse Lubring Patented.

 

I have a pair of TL-13-A pliers that are marked Utica 1950-6. The 1950-6 is an "industry standards number", that is to say that all tool makers would have a specification sheet to follow to make all of the tools the same size, type of materials, etc. Your pliers you say are marked 259-8, so I am assuming that they are 8 inches long, and conform to the ISN specs 259. The TL-13-A's are 6 inches long. That's where the -6 comes in from the ISN number.

The Signal Corps knives of pre-WW2 days were mostly marked "signal corps" somewhere on the knife. The "TL" came about around the beginning of WW2. Artu is correct saying TL=tool, BG=bag and so on. The Signal Corps got real big, real fast, when WW2 broke out. A better numbering system had to be developed to keep the inventory in order.

I have seen many electrician knives over the years. Many are not marked TL-29. They were made for civilian sales post war. To say that any GI would be required to "private purchase" any equipment is a statement of ignorance. They bought personal items, not working tools. In my opinion, to have a correct Tool Equipment, TE-33, one must have the correctly marked items. CS-34 pouch, TL-29 knife, and TL-13-A pliers. Buy the right stuff to begin with and stop looking for excuses.

[dustin]

Trazaka states that KA-BARwas producing these knives since the early twenties and that the WWII produced knives used steel spacers and WWII produced TL-29 were tang marked KA-BAR/OLEAN N.Y. the article mentions nothing of the marking 1148-USA.

[ronl]

I have bothTL-29's and TL-13's, but they were not what came in this particular CS-34 pouch, so I was simply curious as to how they ended up in it. Guess I'll never know for sure. Thanks for the info about the knife. Perhaps this particular group was put together pre-WW2 when procurement for the military was, shall we say, less than adequate. Perhaps the pouch was used in the civvie world after the war and this is what was stuck in them. One thing I have learned in my years of collecting is never say never about anything.

[MAS36]

I have bothTL-29's and TL-13's, but they were not what came in this particular CS-34 pouch, so I was simply curious as to how they ended up in it. Guess I'll never know for sure. Thanks for the info about the knife. Perhaps this particular group was put together pre-WW2 when procurement for the military was, shall we say, less than adequate. Perhaps the pouch was used in the civvie world after the war and this is what was stuck in them. One thing I have learned in my years of collecting is never say never about anything.

 

I agree

 

same thing with the early WWII compass with no markings on the case, some stuff wasnt marked

[gunbarrel]

From the article by Frank Trzaska on the March 1997 issue of Knife World titled "Ka-Bar's TL-29"

 

…Ka-Bar has been producing this knife design since the twenties, as it can be found in their 1925 catalog.

 

…The designation "TL-29" is military speak for Tool, Lineman, #29. In the original radio-telephone repairmen's tool kit, it was the number 29 tool along with assorted screwdrivers and other tools of the electrician's trade.

 

…Pouch, CS-34, was the leather scabbard and Pouch, CS-35, was made of heavy cotton duck for humid condition…Together (with the knife and the pliers) they were referred to as TE-33; Tool, Equipment Pouch, #33.

 

…Ka-Bar made five different variations of this knife for the U.S. Military. The World War II era knives can be spotted very easily out of these variations. Brass was a strategic item, needed for shell casings, and as such, knife liners of this period were made mainly of the easier to obtain steel.

 

The article discusses the five types of TL-29 knives made by Ka-Bar during WWII. None was unmarked.

 

HTH.

[artu44]

From the article by Frank Trzaska on the March 1997 issue of Knife World titled "Ka-Bar's TL-29"

 

 

The article discusses the five types of TL-29 knives made by Ka-Bar during WWII. None was unmarked.

 

HTH.

 

Of course