John Cooper Posted February 23, 2011 Share #1 Posted February 23, 2011 I will let the photos do the talking. Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share #2 Posted February 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armillary_journey Posted February 23, 2011 Share #3 Posted February 23, 2011 Breathtaking. Really. I won't post the picture seeing how I didn't get persmission, but here is the link to the only Navy wing I like more than that one. The stars in the shield I feel should never had been removed. Thanks Bob and Cliff for that wing, and John, thanks for posting this one. I have a particular love of some of the old Navy wings. Yours here and this one of Cliff's speak to me. http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/wwi/us/presleynavy1.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted February 23, 2011 Share #4 Posted February 23, 2011 That is a BEAUTIFUL wing John, do not recognize those hallmarks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschwartz Posted February 23, 2011 Share #5 Posted February 23, 2011 That's the early Robbins hallmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militarymodels Posted February 23, 2011 Share #6 Posted February 23, 2011 :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militarymodels Posted February 23, 2011 Share #7 Posted February 23, 2011 I've never been lucky to own one of these gorgeous wings but catch looks kind of funny as alot WWI pins used C type catch. This catch looks like one of those from the USMC China Service medal that I have. Was it replaced? John, Can you post a close up picture of the catch? Regards, Lonny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted February 23, 2011 Share #8 Posted February 23, 2011 A very nice wing, John! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschwartz Posted February 23, 2011 Share #9 Posted February 23, 2011 It does look like a replacement clutch but a correct period replacement clutch. The the exact kind of clutch that is on mine but with a wider base. Perhaps the original broke off and they used this larger base clutch to more solidly solder it to the wing. I often see this with German items. Here's the back of my Robbins wing of the same era for comparison: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navyman Posted February 23, 2011 Share #10 Posted February 23, 2011 John, Nice wing! I like it!! Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted February 23, 2011 Share #11 Posted February 23, 2011 Here's the back of my Robbins wing of the same era for comparison: I hope I'm not encroaching on your thread, but I had the same thought, and have attached a picture with a different angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teufelhunde.ret Posted February 24, 2011 Share #12 Posted February 24, 2011 I hope I'm not encroaching on your thread, but I had the same thought, and have attached a picture with a different angle. Is yours a Robbins as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeK Posted February 24, 2011 Share #13 Posted February 24, 2011 Is yours a Robbins as well? It certainly looks like it - the 3 maker markings are visible below the reverse left shoulder. I finally managed to land an example of this type a month or so ago (see scans). As a result, I've been able to more firmly assign Robbins as a possibly/probable maker for some other slightly later unmarked examples in my collection. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted February 24, 2011 Share #14 Posted February 24, 2011 Is yours a Robbins as well? Yes "D". Here's a top shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #15 Posted February 24, 2011 As requested here are a coouple photos of the catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share #16 Posted February 24, 2011 ...and here is the makers mark for those interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted February 25, 2011 Share #17 Posted February 25, 2011 John, Thank you for adding the new photos. As bschwartz originally mentioned, the base of the catch is a different type then is normally associated with this wing. Do you have any ideas about this variance ? It's certainly been there awhile. PS-I envy your camera!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfields Posted February 25, 2011 Share #18 Posted February 25, 2011 Gorgeous! Were WWI Navy wings silver finished rather than gold? Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffP Posted February 25, 2011 Share #19 Posted February 25, 2011 It does look like a replacement clutch...but a correct period replacement clutch. It's the exact kind of clutch (or catch) that is on mine but with a wider base. Perhaps the original broke off and they used the larger base to more solidly solder it to the wing. As 'bschwartz' originally mentioned, the (wider) base at the bottom of the catch (or clutch) is a different type then is normally associated with this wing. Do you have any ideas about this variance ? Robin, That style clutch or catch has also been called a lever lock or Tiffany catch and they date from approximately 1910 to 1918. A similar style device can be found on some of the original Military Aviator badges made at Rock Island Arsenal in 1913, but the style is more typically found on a few 1918 era Navy & Army wing badges. I think Bob (bschwartz) is right on the money in saying that the original device had probably been broken off and when repaired a more substantial base was applied to insure that it would stay more permanently attached. Cliff . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted February 25, 2011 Share #20 Posted February 25, 2011 Robin, That style clutch or catch has also been called a lever lock or Tiffany catch and they date from approximately 1910 to 1918. A similar style device can be found on some of the original Military Aviator badges made at Rock Island Arsenal in 1913, but the style is more typically found on a few 1918 era Navy & Army wing badges. I think Bob (bschwartz) is right on the money in saying that the original device had probably been broken off and when repaired a more substantial base was applied to insure that it would stay more permanently attached. Cliff . Thank you Cliff, As you know I am new to wings, and this is the first time I have seen this style of catch. While I know the wing is a good one, this would have made me VERY cautious if I were going to purchase it. I know you long timers would not have made that mistake, but it would have scared me !! JS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram957 Posted February 26, 2011 Share #21 Posted February 26, 2011 Thank you Cliff, As you know I am new to wings, and this is the first time I have seen this style of catch. While I know the wing is a good one, this would have made me VERY cautious if I were going to purchase it. I know you long timers would not have made that mistake, but it would have scared me !! JS GREAT PHOTOGRAPHY !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armillary_journey Posted October 22, 2011 Share #22 Posted October 22, 2011 So it would be safe to say looking at John's wing that all WW1 wings did not have closed flukes? Can anyone address why the wing is silver, and not gold? What years did Robbins use the old hallmarks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted October 22, 2011 Share #23 Posted October 22, 2011 So it would be safe to say looking at John's wing that all WW1 wings did not have closed flukes? Can anyone address why the wing is silver, and not gold? What years did Robbins use the old hallmarks? The majority of WWI US Navy wings i have seen were actually gilded bronze and have closed flukes. I believe John's wings are actually from the 1920's. While some USN Wings from the 1917-1941 time period were sold gold ( 10 or 14K), most were either gilded or gold plated sterling silver. The gold finish on these often wore off with repeated polishings. I have a pair of Robbins wings that look just like these with their later hallmark from the 1930's that actually says "Robbins". I am not sure exactly when the change in hallmarks took place but I would guess it happened sometime @ 1930. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted October 22, 2011 Share #24 Posted October 22, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armillary_journey Posted October 22, 2011 Share #25 Posted October 22, 2011 I was wondering if John's wing with the open flukes could be a mid 20's Observer wing that had a repair done with the Tiffany style catch. So it looks as though Robbins was using their old hallmark into the '20s if what I've read on here before that the flukes started becoming open after 1922. I can understand someone may have cleaned it silver, but the old WW1 catch on the open flukes with the old hallmark makes room for thought. Cliff, can you paint a more accurate picture of these questions in reference to these wings? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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