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Official WWII Hand Engraving? I think it might be.


KASTAUFFER
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I have seen enough of these now to believe this style is official, even though I have not seen any in mailing boxes from the PQMD yet. I have seen more of these than the examples I am posting here. The ones in my collection came from a Family member.

 

 

Here is a DFC and AM to POW Harry Korger. These came from his granddaughter.

 

 

 

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I also saw a POW DFC/AM at the SOS a few years back that had the same engraving.

 

I believe these to be the work of a single contract engraver at the PQMD who took some liberties with his style. He used " Air Corps" instead of " A.C." The same could be said of script engraving from the 1946-1948 time period. I would not doubt that this style of engraving might be from the same time period.

 

 

Anyone else out there have any examples?

 

 

Kurt

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post-105-1297618030.jpg

 

I agree, Kurt. I don't own any with this engraving hand but like you say, they pop up too often to be coincidence. That said, it would seem that this engraver is less prolific than most perhaps as a result of his "creativity?". Maybe he didn't last long?.

 

Re. the POW group on Ebay. $3 GRAND!!?? Have I missed something or am I out of touch??

 

Cheers.

Rob

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Kurt and I have been discussing this engraving style for a while. We both agree that until we see a medal engraved this way with an outer mailing box from the PQMD, neither of us will definitively say that it is official PQMD engraving. I'll let him discuss his own theory, but here's mine:

 

First of all, out of the millions of medals for WWII, 7 is not a very accurate statistical summary. But here's some general info on the seven:

 

Theodore W. Raniseski

SN: 33591906

enlisted 12/43

home state: PA

 

Edward Korber

SN: 33106034

enlisted 11/41

home state: PA

 

Louis Menne

SN: 3221750

home state: NY

 

Karl M. Kagan

SN:42052700

enllisted 11/43

home state: NY

 

Harold F. Korger

SN: 16023226

enlisted 12/41

POW 9/43 to 7/45

home state: WI

 

Frederick W. Moschberger

SN: O-826485

enlisted 10/42

POW 11/44 to 5/45

home state: NJ

 

Edward W. Szaniawski

SN: 12028534

POW 5/44 to 5/45

home state: NY

 

So we've got 3 POWs (all three AAF guys), no KIAs, and none with mailing boxes, unfortunately. If we take Korger out of the mix, the other six are from either NY, NJ, or PA... all East Coasters, and therefore all would have been processed through the Ft Dix Separation Center (which handled returning servicemen from NY, NJ, PA, and DE). So I suspect this engraving was done at the Separation Center for vets who were being discharged.

 

The only reason I take Korger out of the mix was that he stayed in the military (eventually retiring in the 1970s), and would have been processed differently than someone who was being discharged. I have no documentation of the fact, but it's possible Korger could have been processed through Ft Dix for redeployment rather than separation.

 

It's just the start of a theory, and I'm perfectly willing to be proved wrong. I'm looking forward to seeing other examples of this type of engraving and hearing other theories.

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Hey Guys,

 

I have to agree with ya Kurt...and Tom !

 

I've seen several examples of this "hand" in the past and Frank have I both communicated to each other our thoughts that this engraving style is possibly "official" well.

 

FYI - I have a medal grouping to an infantrymen with BS/PH documents where the medals exhibit the same engraving "hand" and style...

 

AND...it includes an NY Conspicious Service Cross too !!

 

Hhhhhmmmmm....

 

Vic

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I think Tom's theory makes sense, but my "Gut" tells me these were issued post WWII the same time Script engraving was being used. My reasoning for that is that 2 fold.

 

1. The Silver Star has a diamond hallmark on the top of the knob. That is a post WWII Silverman brothers contract medal.

2. The DFC's are both US Mint contract medals. I have seen 2 examples that were script engraved using this same contract medal, but I have never seen an " A.C." style engraved DFC using this contract medal.

 

I am hoping to get a copy of Korger's personnel file from St. Louis. That may shed some light!

 

Kurt

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I'll be a conspiracy theorist just for the same of argument and for no other reason that that...

 

Could these all be the works of a very prolific faker? One who has done so many of these now that he has his own easily & quickly recognized "hand'? His work is perhaps close to originals that are of the well known engraving "hands" but not quite there yet, thus the entirely different look?

 

Perhaps the majority are for East Coat names because that is where all these men are buried, were found in old news articles, etc. and that is where the faker is also?

 

Again, I am not putting forth that as any opinion of mine either way, just being the devil's advocate, especially in light of the fact that it sounds as if none of these turned up with anything but the loose medals...

 

MW

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I'll be a conspiracy theorist just for the same of argument and for no other reason that that...

 

Could these all be the works of a very prolific faker? One who has done so many of these now that he has his own easily & quickly recognized "hand'? His work is perhaps close to originals that are of the well known engraving "hands" but not quite there yet, thus the entirely different look?

 

Perhaps the majority are for East Coat names because that is where all these men are buried, were found in old news articles, etc. and that is where the faker is also?

 

Again, I am not putting forth that as any opinion of mine either way, just being the devil's advocate, especially in light of the fact that it sounds as if none of these turned up with anything but the loose medals...

 

MW

 

I would think that might be a possibility except Korgers medals were handed to me by a family member personally. Korger's PH is actually hand engraved on the normal way. Szaniawski's medals were removed from the trash with the rest of his grouping and sold to Forum Support.

 

Kurt

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I would think that might be a possibility except Korgers medals were handed to me by a family member personally. Korger's PH is actually hand engraved on the normal way. Szaniawski's medals were removed from the trash with the rest of his grouping and sold to Forum Support.

 

Kurt

 

 

My grouping came out of the woodwork as well...

 

Vic

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I would think that might be a possibility except Korgers medals were handed to me by a family member personally. Korger's PH is actually hand engraved on the normal way. Szaniawski's medals were removed from the trash with the rest of his grouping and sold to Forum Support.

 

Kurt

 

Good points. Like I said, it was just a devil's advocate thought.

 

MW

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I'm a believer, should this be referred to as "Stauffer Style" from now on?

I don't think that Kurt is ready to make that leap yet! :lol:

OR.......is he?? :think:

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I don't think that Kurt is ready to make that leap yet! :lol:

OR.......is he?? :think:

 

No, but we re-named the word that describes a " mint condition" medal to " FS Condition" after a friend of mine.

 

Kurt

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No, but we re-named the word that describes a " mint condition" medal to " FS Condition" after a friend of mine.

Kurt

Kurt,

I think you are deserving of the honor.

However, I don't believe you would want the distinction until it were "etched in stone."

 

By the way.......who is the "friend", so we all can know??

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Kurt,

I think you are deserving of the honor.

However, I don't believe you would want the distinction until it were "etched in stone."

 

By the way.......who is the "friend", so we all can know??

 

Thanks Jack,

 

I will let him do the " big reveal" if he wants to :w00t:

 

Kurt

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Thanks Jack,

 

I will let him do the " big reveal" if he wants to :w00t:

 

Kurt

 

 

No disrepect intended Robin but us "old timers" know "FS condition" !! :thumbsup: :rolleyes:

 

Vic

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No disrepect intended JS but us "old timers" know "FS condition" !! :thumbsup: :rolleyes:

Vic

:lol: None taken Vic.

The "right of passage" exsist in all groups, I'm looking forward to 'being there' one day!... :w00t:

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