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Rigger airborne pouch


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#1 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:34 AM

Hello all, I was wondering if I could get some opinions on this rigger made ammo pouch. I picked this up because it has features that I have not seen on the reproduction pouches made for the reenactor market. The material and the lift the dot snap are in my opinion original. The reinforced stitching on the pocket flap and bottom edges is done in OD #7 thread (a little hard to tell in the photos). All of the stitching details look to be very well done. I know how rare originals of this pouch are but I thought this might have a chance. I compared it to two different repros I have and the differences are great.

Thanks in advance,
Rob

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#2 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:34 AM

Side

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#3 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:35 AM

Reverse

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#4 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:35 AM

Flap open

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#5 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:36 AM

Stitch detail on flap

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#6 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:37 AM

Stitch detail on reverse of flap hinge

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#7 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:38 AM

Stitch detail on the bottom of the belt loop

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#8 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:38 AM

Stitch detail bottom edge

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#9 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:39 AM

Inside view

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#10 Ronnie

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 09:21 PM

Inside view

A good friend of mine who has made a lot of gear for the reenactor market uses nothing but WWII canvas. lift the dot snaps and original WWII thread. The first ones I sold could have been sold as originals. They were that good. This may be one.

#11 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 03:07 AM

A good friend of mine who has made a lot of gear for the reenactor market uses nothing but WWII canvas. lift the dot snaps and original WWII thread. The first ones I sold could have been sold as originals. They were that good. This may be one.


Yes, I have seen reproduction gear made from original materials before. The gear I saw was of issued items, a compass pouch comes to mind. It was very well made and at first looked original. The OD canvas used to construct the pouch was original and had that musty smell all of us gear heads love. After close study & comparing it to originals I was able to tell it was a reproduction. The rigger made pouch is a tough call because they were not issued items and construction was not standard. All I have to compare it to are known repros, I wish you had photos of the repro pouches your friend made. Thanks for the info!

Rob

#12 Johan Willaert

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 03:43 AM

Here are two originals from my collection....

Posted Image

Posted Image

While the one you show looks very good, some points come to mind as I look at it...

IMO it is too new... I have yet to see an unissued pouch. Of course it's possible that some were never used, but I feel that's highly unlikely as in over 30 years of looking for these I have never seen one...

All or at least the overwhelming majority of the pouches that I have seen had the nickel plates female part of the LTD fastener with a blackened male part. I know pictures of Sicily campaign pouches show some black LTDs but who has ever seen one of those???

Construction of your pouch is rather like the one with string closure on my picture and not like the one with an LTD stud...

Just a couple of observations and food for thought...

#13 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 04:02 AM

Johan,

I agree, the condition of the pouch has put me off but not enough to rule it out. Would you have any photos of the reverse of your LTD pouch? I was wondering how the stitching details compared. Since the consrtruction of these pouches will vary from rigger to rigger I fear it might be very hard to nail down.

Thanks,
Rob

#14 Johan Willaert

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 04:24 AM

From memory it's pretty similar to yours... Would have to get it out of storage and take pictures to be sure...

#15 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 04:32 AM

From memory it's pretty similar to yours... Would have to get it out of storage and take pictures to be sure...


Thanks Johan, please do not go through a hassle just to take a photo.

Rob

#16 JR KENMARK

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 05:25 AM

Thanks Johan, please do not go through a hassle just to take a photo.

Rob


The only ones I would trust of these is the chrome lift-a-dot snap type and ones that have used the same thread as was used to reinforce the jump jackets and pants. If that thread is not identicle, I pass.

#17 Johan Willaert

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 08:24 AM

Here's the backside of both....

LTD pouch left and string type right

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#18 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 02:29 PM

Here's the backside of both....

LTD pouch left and string type right


Thank you very much Johan! I notice the stitching on both of your pouches are much more crude. Makes me think someone spent TOO much time constructing my pouch.

Rob

#19 Constabulary

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 12:03 PM

I always wanted to ask but forgot to...
I also have two of the pouches. I bought hem several years ago as tool pouches.

Any opinions?

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h296/after-the-battle/Forum%20Pics/IMG_6902-1.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h296/after-the-battle/Forum%20Pics/IMG_6903.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h296/after-the-battle/Forum%20Pics/IMG_6904.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h296/after-the-battle/Forum%20Pics/IMG_6905.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h296/after-the-battle/Forum%20Pics/IMG_6906-1.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h296/after-the-battle/Forum%20Pics/IMG_6907.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h296/after-the-battle/Forum%20Pics/IMG_6908-1.jpg

#20 Sabrejet

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 01:47 PM

I've got a couple of similar pouches which I knowingly bought as repros from a British manufacturer. He uses NOS Dot fasteners, the correct gauge/colour cotton duck all sewn together on a WW2 machine using WW2 thread. It's really only their "newness" which identifies them as repros. Rigger-made stuff wasn't mass-produced in vast quantities. It was made to order, so I doubt there'd be stocks of "unissued" rigger pouches waiting to be discovered! Therefore, IMHO, your example is probably a repro too.

Sabrejet

#21 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 02:19 PM

I've got a couple of similar pouches which I knowingly bought as repros from a British manufacturer. He uses NOS Dot fasteners, the correct gauge/colour cotton duck all sewn together on a WW2 machine using WW2 thread. It's really only their "newness" which identifies them as repros. Rigger-made stuff wasn't mass-produced in vast quantities. It was made to order, so I doubt there'd be stocks of "unissued" rigger pouches waiting to be discovered! Therefore, IMHO, your example is probably a repro too.

Sabrejet


Thanks, I have also come to the same conclusion. I bought it on the off chance that it could be original and did not spend much money on it. Hats off to whoever made it, very nice work.

Rob

#22 Sabrejet

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 02:37 PM

Thanks, I have also come to the same conclusion. I bought it on the off chance that it could be original and did not spend much money on it. Hats off to whoever made it, very nice work.

Rob



If used regularly for re-enacting, the wear and tear it receives would ultimately render it virtually indistinguishable from an original.

Sabrejet

#23 Future Radio Tech

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 01:32 PM

Iam with Saberjet since rigger pouches were made to order than there wouldn't be stocks of unissued pouches waiting to be discovered and the fabrics condition looks like the condition of my unissued carisle bandage pouch so yes i think yours is a repop Fixbayonets :P but still its a great quality repro whoever made it has some real talent! :thumbsup:

#24 Fixbayonets!

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:37 AM

Iam with Saberjet since rigger pouches were made to order than there wouldn't be stocks of unissued pouches waiting to be discovered and the fabrics condition looks like the condition of my unissued carisle bandage pouch so yes i think yours is a repop Fixbayonets :P but still its a great quality repro whoever made it has some real talent! :thumbsup:


I agree it is most likley a repro but not so much because it is in unissued or excellent condition. I found just this one pouch, not stocks of unissued pouches, that might be a different story. I have some items in my collection that are just as rare as this pouch that are without a doubt original and are in unissued or excellent condition. For me, the condition of an item is not the reason to count it out as a reproduction. :thumbsup:

Rob

#25 redjoshman

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 02:36 PM

For something like this, unless i got it as from an extremely reputable dealer or a vet I would assume it was a reproduction.

-Josh


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